oil in coolant

[Epixstar]

while just checking on all my fluid levels i noticed there is a fair amount of oil in the coolant. The car runs fine though no white smoke or overhearting at all and i dont think there is water in the pan oil. i know that this could be the head gasket but chould it just be something else? could it just need a good flush? ive only had this car for a week now and the coolant is one think i did not check cause i drove the car up to operation temp and was to hot to open.

[jglutz]

If no other signs exist other than water in the oil...and the car has only be in your pocession for a week...a good flush and coolant change would be easier than the cost of coolant rather than a head job.

Or every day....while the engine is cold....pull the rad cap and use some paper towels to wick the oil off of the top of the coolant. Also clean old the overflow reservoir and tube. Repeat for several days to see if the oil disappears.

[Epixstar]

i gonna do that tommorow this car just sat for around 6 months before i got it

[Epixstar]

there was more oil in that coolant than ive ever seen before it looked like they tryed to use oil insead of coolant i flushed it out then let the hose run in the raditor and upper coolant hose then refilled and put some sealer in the raditor. it took nearly a half hour of driving and sitting in my parking lot just for it to get up to temp and it seem to be smoking a little i could not tell from where but i could have spill some coolant somewhere this was a very messy job. has anyone ever seen this much oil in there coolant? there was no coolant in the pan oil at all how could it have got there?

[Bathtub Tom]

Perhaps someone put engine oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid, power steering fluid etc, in the wrong 'ole!

[miami man]

one time my mother put powersteering fluid where the brake fluid should have gone...true story.

[jglutz]

The steam coming off after a flush and refill is not uncommon. Usually will disappear after two or more fan cycles.

[Epixstar]

i found the owner who had the sold the car to the guy i got it off he had the car for around 8 years he said it had been doing that for years and he would just siphon it off teh top every few months he said he was a mechanic and had no clue were it was coming from but it never overheated other than the headgasket could it be anything else

[SnotRocket]

Well maybe somebody thought it was an oil drain and poured in some extra? Maybe the water pump bearing sprung a leak, maybe your oil level is just too high and... I'm sorry that I saw humor in some of the above.

OK. Since I just happen to have a 1990 I bought doing the Exact Same Thing, I'll tell you what I've done and think. The guy I bought "Buster" from said a mechanic told him it was the head gasket. When I bought the car the seller already had bought the head gasket, he just didn't know anything about little 4 cylinder foreign engines (but if it was a V-8 he could fix it). I pulled the head a couple of weeks ago and removed the old head gasket. Under Close Inspection I did not find anything wrong with the old head gasket. Since I already had a head gasket, I put it on. Not finding anything my guess is my head is cracked between an oil and water passage. I pulled the head back off Saturday Morning (See "I Just Tore Buster's Head Off") and dropped the old head and brand new head at the machine shop to swap the valves and pressure test the old head. If... the old head passes the pressure test then my leak has to be block related. I should get the head back later this week and will post the results.

Mike

[jglutz]

other than the headgasket could it be anything else

A crack in either the head or the block...between the oil and coolant passages. thou I would doubt that....in most places the water is at higher pressure than the oil...the water should be leaking into the oil. When the engine cools down and the pressure decreases...the vaccum should be sufficed by the coolant overflow circuit...Is it in place and operational.

[SnotRocket]

A crack in either the head or the block...between the oil and coolant passages. the water should be leaking into the oil.

Humm... 'bout clear as mud to me. Water should be leaking into the oil? I don't think so, normal oil pressure 35 to 50 psi and normal water pressure 0-14 psi and Oil goes into Water (and seeing it's lighter than water, it floats on the top therefore you see it when you open the radiator cap and it's also pushed back into the puke tank).

(If there's a cylinder crack into the water jacket then water will go into the oil.) On the Festiva block there's some reasonable distance between the water jackets and oil passage. In the picture there's 4 oil returns and 1 supply.(The supply is in the center on the firewall side of the head. The returns are two on the front at each corner and two on the drivers side/firewall.

Between an aluminum head and cast iron block, I'd bet 3 to 1 on the heads. I will post my head results as soon as I get them.

[jglutz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You forgot one thing....the oil pressure that you mention is only available in very few passages. And only one is near water...that is the one from the block to the head. All of the other oil ports from the head to the block are drain ports....at the same pressure as the PCV.

Oil under pressure.....if it is not going across the relief valve.
1) Travels from the pump along the back of the block to the filter.
2) Travels from the filter into the block where it T's
3) One exit of the T enters the cranck side of the block and travels down the Bearing towers. No water near the crank if I remember correctly.
4) Second part of the T enters the head thru a small orifice in the block. The orifice reduces oil pressure/flow in the head thus forcing the majority of the oil to the crank.
Once in the head this path goes to the center of the cam...2 smalls holes are drilled into this path to supply both rocker arms.

Other than these passages (of which the crank has the majority of the pressure/flow) not many are near water.

I have rebuilt many cars engines....and the majority of the time the water is in the oil....not the other way around.

If the engine is not over heating...running well...and the oil problem is internal to the engine. Most likely a HG erroded where the oil flow into the head from the block.

[scottxd45]

Humm... 'bout clear as mud to me. Water should be leaking into the oil? I don't think so, normal oil pressure 35 to 50 psi and normal water pressure 0-14 psi and Oil goes into Water (and seeing it's lighter than water, it floats on the top therefore you see it when you open the radiator cap and it's also pushed back into the puke tank).

But when you shut off the engine there is no oil pressure and you still have pressure in the cooling system right? So water would get into the oil when it is shut off after running for a while.

[SnotRocket]

Results are In...

I got my New head back from the machine shop Thursday. (The new Ford heads on ebay come with seats, valve guides and seals... no valves or springs.) The guy I normally deal with had already left and the remaining guy didn't know anything about a pressure test on the old head. Bolted the new head on Friday and spent about 2 hours cleaning the old oil out of the puke tank and system Saturday. So far I've driven "Buster" about 140 miles and no oil floaties in the radiator. The water looks a little dirty but No oil floating in the radiator and the engine oil seems to be holding. I'll keep you posted but it looks like my problem with oil getting in the water Was my head.

Capt. Mike

[rbrown]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You forgot one thing....the oil pressure that you mention is only available in very few passages. And only one is near water...that is the one from the block to the head. All of the other oil ports from the head to the block are drain ports....at the same pressure as the PCV.

Oil under pressure.....if it is not going across the relief valve.
1) Travels from the pump along the back of the block to the filter.
2) Travels from the filter into the block where it T's
3) One exit of the T enters the cranck side of the block and travels down the Bearing towers. No water near the crank if I remember correctly.
4) Second part of the T enters the head thru a small orifice in the block. The orifice reduces oil pressure/flow in the head thus forcing the majority of the oil to the crank.
Once in the head this path goes to the center of the cam...2 smalls holes are drilled into this path to supply both rocker arms.

Other than these passages (of which the crank has the majority of the pressure/flow) not many are near water.

I have rebuilt many cars engines....and the majority of the time the water is in the oil....not the other way around.

If the engine is not over heating...running well...and the oil problem is internal to the engine. Most likely a HG erroded where the oil flow into the head from the block.

Of the 2 I have had problems with. Both had oil in the water.
In fact I still have one with a problem and cannot locate.

These are not Festivas. One was my 1995 Thunderbird SC 3.8. The problem child is a 460 big block.

But I will agree that if you do not regularly change antifreeze, the "aluminum rust" creep around and under HG can get pretty bad.