A/C question

[m715]

You will likely want to find a complete system in a car to do the swap. There are too many little items to remember-come up with to try to do one from scratch IMO. The differences between the the FI and carb systems are: the high pressure line is routed differently due to the air filter box location being in the same spot the washer reservoir is in the carb setup, the wiring harness is different, and the carb model has a box labeled an amplifier for a signal inline at the evaporator box. Another thing to keep in min is you hve 2 types of FI systems, factory type and dealer installed. THe easiest ID for these two is that the factory type has a hard line high pressure line that runs along the fenderwell on the passenger side and only one rubber low pressure line to the evaporator, and the compressor mounts on a bracket that bolts on the engine. The dealer installed system has 2 rubber hoses that run side by side into the evaporator instead, and the compressor mounts directly to the engine without the bracket. I also have one example of an aftermarket system that has a Sanden compressor with the fill/test fittings on the compressor, and universal lines made of rubber, high & low side to the evaporator. To me, it looks at first glance to be aftermarket though, and should be easy to spot as a non factory or dealer kit.

HTH
Michael

[m715]

Oh, and the other thing to consider on trying to swap to a serpentine belt pulley would be the crank bolt pattern on the early small diameter crank vs the later type large snout type. Early engines into 1990 have a smaller diameter bolt pattern.

Michael

[boostmaster]

It's starting to look as if I'll be airless for a while...

[m715]

Don't let it get you down that easily! It just makes things a WHOLE lot easier if you have a car next to yours that you can swap from because of all the small parts involved. I think I should also tell you in advance that the A/C units for our cars are.....well....... not the coldest units I have ever had, and REALLY cut the power and mileage down. I have A/C on all but one of my cars I drive, and when I get in, most of the time, I run them without the air on. If it is too humid ( like right now ) I retreat to the Taurus and take the BIG mileage hit to be cool after work, or hang around the shop until the sun starts to go down. One good thing about Festivas are that they have good circulation in the passenger compartment as long as you can keep moving.
Keep the faith, and you might want to give one of the guys to the east a shout to check if they have a unit in a dead car around you could rob for a reasonable fee. They are out there. I have had to do this on all but one of mine too. That is why I have had 9 so far. I take 2 or 3 cars to get the options I am looking for to make the car what I want.

Michael

[freshtiva]

I respect m715s festiva knowledge but IMHO festiva air works fines. All my festivas have air but one. They all work good enough for me. I dont really have any thing other than festivas to compare to, but it works for me. They will zap your MPG, I estimate 3-5 MPG. I got 37.25 on my last tank in festdiva using the air pretty much all the time. We had a heat index of 110 yesterday. A COMPLETE used working system will cost you $300-$400 for a festiva not including installation, at least Ive sold them for that. Ive got a couple of units now that I dont want to part with but it would take at least that much to buy them. A/C was my only option requirement when I bought my original festiva. It took awhile to find one even in 1993. A full working system now is a rarity.

[geezerstiva]

if you've got a carbed car, then you want an a/c setup from a carbed car. the FI ones have completely different routings for the hoses and stuff. but on the bright side, if you pull a setup off of another car, its not hard to put it back on yours. i did mine and it wasnt hard at all.
oh and with the idle up thing, my car (w/o a/c) was already wired for this. all i had to do was plug it in.

[m715]

The reason I say what I do is that in the heavy humidity, and full sunlight at this time of the yrear, our ample cargo space in a hatchback design comes back to haunt us for all those times we have fit that incredible load in those times before. The absolute best I have been able to muster on those days is 76 deg out of any of my systems, r12 or 134 charges. I admit..... that feels REALLY nice after 95 all day in the shop, but the Taurus just about spits ice at me on the way home, and so did the system that was in the Studebaker, and Cutlass ( when I could keep a charge int that old radial compressor, and a thermal fuse in it). I have paid about 300 or 400 for mine too, but bought the whole trashed out car for that money to rob all the options too with the air system. I have 3 right now: an aftermarket system that I would say was added when new to the Cumudgeon(carb), a factory system on Rasta that has been on Shtinky, then pulled back out, then installed on Rasta for the Wife when she swapped cars(carb), and the factory system I have installed noew over in Smurffy(FI) which is the only system fully installed that I have not REALLY put through the paces in a long term test. I have also installed dealer installed systems too, and we used to service A/C and install systems up until a few years ago when the EPA got to be a bit much about equipment and licencing requirements, and the owners just said..UNCLE! Mine have always taken a bigger mileage hit than yours have Fresh, but driving mine out those winding 2 lane secondary roads to the Phfunny Phfarm to Pheed animals Phor a living probably has a great deal to do with that. I don't discourage anyone from adding air to their Festy. I went to the trouble on three myself, if you don't count the swapping back and forth business that is. Hardest part IMO is locating the wiring for the two plug ins by the steering column that the factory has covered up by that funky foam covered tape, and feeding the compressor switch through the heat control panel. Pull the glove box, grille and battery tray out of your way, start swapping parts, and you can have it evacuated, charged and cooling in a long evening as long as your bolt holes in the block aren't rusted, and you need to retap them. BTW, don't forget the rock shield that goes in front of the compressor that mounts on your bumber reinforcement. That is one of the small parts I was speaking of.....



Michael

[gottafesty]

I was fortunate enough to find a Festiva with a/c to swap in to mine. That made it so much easier. On a 4,000 mile round trip to Tennessee at the end of May with a/c blasting non stop and a fairly loaded down with luggage car, I averaged just under 38 mpg. (how's that for a sentence?) Anyways, since the car was fairly filled up with stuff, the a/c kept up very well. However, as m715 said, in an empty car on a real hot day in the sun, it reaches its limits. I hope you aren't too discouraged over this and I hope you find some a/c parts for your car.

Also, I run r134 in mine for whatever it's worth.

[rbrown]

The reason I say what I do is that in the heavy humidity, and full sunlight at this time of the yrear, our ample cargo space in a hatchback design comes back to haunt us for all those times we have fit that incredible load in those times before. The absolute best I have been able to muster on those days is 76 deg out of any of my systems, r12 or 134 charges. I admit..... that feels REALLY nice after 95 all day in the shop, but the Taurus just about spits ice at me on the way home, and so did the system that was in the Studebaker, and Cutlass ( when I could keep a charge int that old radial compressor, and a thermal fuse in it). I have paid about 300 or 400 for mine too, but bought the whole trashed out car for that money to rob all the options too with the air system. I have 3 right now: an aftermarket system that I would say was added when new to the Cumudgeon(carb), a factory system on Rasta that has been on Shtinky, then pulled back out, then installed on Rasta for the Wife when she swapped cars(carb), and the factory system I have installed noew over in Smurffy(FI) which is the only system fully installed that I have not REALLY put through the paces in a long term test. I have also installed dealer installed systems too, and we used to service A/C and install systems up until a few years ago when the EPA got to be a bit much about equipment and licencing requirements, and the owners just said..UNCLE! Mine have always taken a bigger mileage hit than yours have Fresh, but driving mine out those winding 2 lane secondary roads to the Phfunny Phfarm to Pheed animals Phor a living probably has a great deal to do with that. I don't discourage anyone from adding air to their Festy. I went to the trouble on three myself, if you don't count the swapping back and forth business that is. Hardest part IMO is locating the wiring for the two plug ins by the steering column that the factory has covered up by that funky foam covered tape, and feeding the compressor switch through the heat control panel. Pull the glove box, grille and battery tray out of your way, start swapping parts, and you can have it evacuated, charged and cooling in a long evening as long as your bolt holes in the block aren't rusted, and you need to retap them. BTW, don't forget the rock shield that goes in front of the compressor that mounts on your bumber reinforcement. That is one of the small parts I was speaking of.....



Michael

Wow that was hard to read. I had to paste in Notepad and chop it up into bits and pieces so I could follow where I was.

I have noticed mine is not near as cold as my Thunderbirds. Not even close. But it is welcome here in Texas.

[geezerstiva]

hmm. we recently had a week of over 100 degrees every day, and mine was blowing 45-50 degrees the whole time. i think the main problem with them is the evaporator clogs up. we cleaned mine when we did the swap. in the other car i did about as good as y'all. before the cleaning that is.