90 Festiva Dealer Air No Work

[jrbauerjr]

I',m still struggling with the air in my Festiva. It appears to be dealer as it has relays on both the fender and the firewall. There is a sticker that identifies it a "Wynn's Frigitemp" on the evaporator, of course Wynn's air conditioning division disappeared in 1996 in an orgy of mergers and acquisitions.

If I jump the compressor to the battery it runs, If I check the dash switch, and the thermostatic switch, They are all right. Took the relays out and bench checked them, they appear to be all right. Naturally none of the color codes or functions match my factory shop manual.

Anybody know what the functions and proper readings are for any of these relays. Why is there four connections on the high pressure switch and only two in the factory manual, what are they connected to and what functions do they serve???..

Help, my wife won't get in the car until the air is fixed and I'm tired of driving around in our Ford Excursion (14mpg on diesel but 45 degrees with both AC systems on)...

Jim Bauer
San Ramon, CA (where it's 95 in the shade)...

[FB71]

have you check the refrigerant pressure? Most likely, the pressure cutout switch (other half of that high pressure switch) has detected low refrigerant pressure, which prevents the compressor from running and damaging itself.

[jrbauerjr]

AC Slightly working.

Further mutterings,

The relay on the firewall controls the relay on the fenderwell,. The yellow wires go to the engine fan hot side which also supplies the juice to operate the second relay. The green wire runs through the thermos-witch to the AC switch on the dash. This wire gets grounded when the AC turns on.

There are is a two part switch on the dryer/accumulator. Two contacts for the pressure switch side. two more seem to be in series with the engine fan.

The compressor is now turning but I don't seem to have cooling yet. My gages (new harbor freight with all the doodads) indicate no pressure, but don't seem to be capable of tapping into the lines. I hook them up, screw the adapters into the valve and nothing happens. Discharge lines are hot but suction line is at ambient temperature...

What next???????

[CharlieZ]

Quote: "...don't seem to be capable of tapping into the lines. I hook them up, screw the adapters into the valve and nothing happens."

Is there pressure in the system? Any bubbles in the sight glass? Have you tried adding refrigerant?

[jrbauerjr]

90 Festiva Dealer Air No Work

Charlie,

It's very strange.... It's like only the line from the manifold to the charging ports get filled. I get no indication of suction discharge or ambient pressure from the Festiva. No flow of refrigerant when I open the line to my 30 pounds of R134. These are the safety adapters, probably a EPA requirement, that have a blowoff protecter that supposedly opens after the adapters are snapped on and they also have the screw in setup that allegedly opens the valve when it's all the way in. As of yet I can't really determine if there is any pressure in the system other then the pressure switch is closed allowing the compressor to run.

I think that I'll loosen a line to the thermo expansion valve.

Jim

[m715]

Just to add.... What you have is a strictly aftermarket system. Just for your reference, the dealer installed air unit is a Ford product, and different than the factory air unit too. If you go looking for parts, you need to know this. As an example, all these have different refrigerant lines, compressors, etc.
HTH

Michael

[mechanicaldj]

may i suggest going to the local library and finding some technical manuals on automotive a/c systems before proceeding any farther

or

at least giving us some pics of what you are looking at, via digital camera

[CharlieZ]

Without getting into all the pressures, temperatures and tech details of AC, the system is fairly simple mechanically. As suggested by mechanicaldj, find some info. BTW, my 90 OEM factory air is an R12 system. If the R-134 conversion was done improperly, it may have finally suffered a failed component. Some receivers have an incompatible desiccant that disintegrates over time. Incompatible oil. There are O-rings, and sometimes the expansion valve that just won't make it in the long haul. What ever you find, let us all know.

[jrbauerjr]

Continued Mutterings

Well I posted the following on an air conditioning board and got an interesting reply that I will follow up on. Off to order some new valves and buy a vacuum pump. Auto air conditioning systems are quite simple, it's the controls and wiring that's a pain in the neck.. Photos will follow

Jim


Topic Title: Service Port Problem
Created On Fri September 12, 2008 12:29 AM Topic View: Branch ViewThreaded (All Messages)Threaded (Single Messages)Linear





jrbauerjr
Junior Member

Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2008
Fri September 12, 2008 12:29 AM (NEW!)


Year: 1990
Make: Ford
Model: Festiva
Engine Size: 1.3
Refrigerant Type: R134

I'm having problems getting low and high side readings on a 134 conversion. This is a Festiva RV tow car that we bought in 2003 with a a bad compressor. Had a Daytona AC shop install a new compressor and at their suggestion had a 134 conversion at the same time. Left there and went to MD where we used the car but the system didn't really cool at anything other then highway speeds. Brought it back to Northern CA and used it here and in Oregon and didn't worry about the AC. Had an emissions problem in 2005 and put it in storage till this spring when gas prices went out of sight. I love the 37 MPG this little thing gets, but my wife said "Fix the AC".

Had a lot of electrical bugs as the mice loved the AC wiring, the Ford service manual was no help as the AC appears to be a dealer add on by "Wynn Frigitemp". Had to trace all the wiring out to get everything hooked up and running. The heater blower goes on, the AC switch turns the compressor on, but the 2 part pressure switch is open on the condenser fan side, it may close when the pressure comes up???. The compressor side of the switch is closed, so I assume there is still a head of R134 in the system. There is heat on the high side of the THX valve but no cooling on the outlet side.

I assumed that I needed to do a bit more checking and wandered over to Harbor Freight for a 134 gage set to supplement my 30 year old 12/22 setup. It came with all the snap-on fittings that fit the standard 134 ports. I then drove to Sam's and bought a keg of 134. Came home and hooked the gages up. Snapped them into the low side fitting on the sankyo SD 708 compressor and the high side to the dryer/accumulator. Screwed in the valve openers on the 134 adapters and got NOTHING, nada pounds.

I said this couldn't be so I hooked up the 30 lb keg and decided to charge it. NADA... Only succeeded in charging up the manifold and the service hoses. Off with the adapters screw them in and out.... OK, seemed to be moving in and out to open the valve. Put them back on, nothing, took them off, stared at them again..... put them on, nothing, took them off, cursed a lot........ still no reading.

OK gentlemen, what am I missing here... They've got the standard blue and red caps on them, shouldn't the 134 port adapters open them up........

In the meantime the dear wife is commuting back and forth in her gas guzzling wagon 70 miles a day and tells me I can drive her around in my other car, a Ford Excursion, who's diesel mileage we won't mention.......

Thanks, Jim Bauer, San Ramon, CA


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bohica2xo
Senior Member

Posts: 2830
Joined: Apr 2002
Fri September 12, 2008 1:42 PM (NEW!)



A poor vehicle choice for a conversion, but you are already there.

The conversion fittings that were installed are the probable cause of your connection issue.

Many cheap connectors do not have a schrader valve in the new connector, and instead rely on a floating pin to depress the original schrader valve. A high quality conversion fitting will have it's own schrader valve, and the original valve is removed.

You may need to replace the conversion fittings, hopefully they were not installed with permanent thread locker.

If substandard conversion fittings were used, the balance of the conversion is just as suspect. Personally I would open the system & flush back to bare metal before refilling with oil & recharging.

B.

[m715]

Not having pictures, but by description only, it sounds like you have the same aftermarket system I have in The Curmudgeon. I tend to agree with the board member in that I would have to question the conversion, and especially the adapters used. It sounds to me like the Schrader valve is not being opened by your connection to your guage set. Try removing the adapter *carefully*. I know......... how do I get to it! Those connections are a PITA! I burn my hand or arm every time I top off that system, and there is almost no room to work with. You might pull the grille out of your road, and unscrew the universal *fits all fits none* brackets that hold the condensor in place to give you some wiggle room.

HTH
Michael