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I've tried everything I know...please help!!

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  • I've tried everything I know...please help!!

    93GL EFI

    Problem: Cold idle car stumbles and dies unless I keep feathering the throttle. Idle at temp is eratic moving from racing to barely running and anywhere in between. When driving car surges at times especially in 1st & 2nd gear. On occasions car will not start (only about 10% of the time will this happen) and immediately there is a strong smell of gas but after sitting will start first turn (gas smell goes away). MPG is in the low 30's. Problem started immediately after adding fuel additive.

    Here's what I've done: New head, all gaskets, timing belt, plugs/wire, dist cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter, PCV valve, cleaned throttle body, added Lucas fuel additive, A/C belt, idler pulley. Just checked timing again to make sure that was not the problem and timing was good. Changed the TPS because all the symptoms pointed to a problem there. Changing the TPS did absolutely nothing so that was a waisted $70.

    At this point I can't keep buying parts that are not the problem and my mechanic is at a loss as well. He's scratching his head trying to figure out what could be causing the problem. I know other sensors could cause these issues to but I don't want to keep changing sensors when they may not be the problem. So....I'm open to suggestions at this point. PLEASE
    Last edited by BigWheel; 10-17-2008, 05:20 PM.
    '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
    '02 F-150 Supercrew
    '02 Excursion 4x4
    '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

  • #2
    Before changing sensors, why not take a multimeter and a shop manual and test your sensors to see if they are up to spec?
    The left lane? Are you crazy!!! I never drive in the left lane...It's full of freaks driving the wrong way and charging right at you!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pocket_Rocket View Post
      Before changing sensors, why not take a multimeter and a shop manual and test your sensors to see if they are up to spec?
      Because I was acting like my teenagers...doing something without thinking it through first. That's why I'm asking the questions now before I waste more money on parts, tools, etc. I'm a novice mechanic at best and have only worked on classic mustangs in my past. Never had to worry about this EFI, emissions, sensors crap before.
      '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
      '02 F-150 Supercrew
      '02 Excursion 4x4
      '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

      Comment


      • #4
        1 response out of 33 views (woohoo). Come on guys. How about a little help for the ignorant . Attached are two pictures. The first is the engine bay and the second are what I believe to be the OBD connections (there are 3...a single small one not pictured, one with two terminals and then the third with 6 terminals). The individual terminals are NOT labled and I have tried all of them to read the check engine codes. So first can anyone confirm that I have found the OBD connectons? Second can anyone tell me which ones are the STI, STO and GND? I believe the STI is the small single one not pictured. On the larger connection to the left in the picture only 3 terminals of the 6 are occupied top left, top center and bottom center. Not sure which is which. If you can identify these terminals that will help tremendously.

        Thank You
        Attached Files
        '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
        '02 F-150 Supercrew
        '02 Excursion 4x4
        '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

        Comment


        • #5
          The black 1 pin connector is the STI. You should be grounding this connector when checking/adjusting the timing.

          GND is not a connector... it is ground.. IE any bare metal on your car.. your cars chassis is connected to the neg side of your battery.

          The white 1 pin connector is the STO. Yellow wire with black trace I think. Ground this connector and turn your key on and count the # of flashes to retrive eng codes.
          89SX funtop! Fully loaded!
          RIP 90LX

          Comment


          • #6
            Also the black 2 pin connector is the fuel pump test connector.
            89SX funtop! Fully loaded!
            RIP 90LX

            Comment


            • #7
              ive never delt with the festiva EFI but, i know on my carb'd car if there is a vacuum leak the car will idle and run just like u say
              (GONE)88 Festiva LX 5 Speed, Factory A/C, Factory Tow Hitch, Tach.
              95k Original miles
              New: Tires, Axels, Front Wheel Bearings, Fuel Pump, Valve Cover Gasket, Carb Rebuild, Timing Set, Belts, Shoes, Distributor, CapRotor, Wires, Plugs, Coil, Grant 11" Steering Wheel, 3700 Watt Stereo System-6 1/2 Infinity speakers, Infinity tweeters, Almani 12" subs

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by piratewilly View Post
                ive never delt with the festiva EFI but, i know on my carb'd car if there is a vacuum leak the car will idle and run just like u say
                I checked for a vaccum leak and so far haven't found one. Still haven't ruled it out though.
                '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
                '02 F-150 Supercrew
                '02 Excursion 4x4
                '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by stefan View Post
                  The black 1 pin connector is the STI. You should be grounding this connector when checking/adjusting the timing.

                  GND is not a connector... it is ground.. IE any bare metal on your car.. your cars chassis is connected to the neg side of your battery.

                  The white 1 pin connector is the STO. Yellow wire with black trace I think. Ground this connector and turn your key on and count the # of flashes to retrive eng codes.
                  Good stuff. I didn't check the timing because I'm not that skilled. I left that to the pros. I knew GND was ground but every diagram I looked at showed a GND terminal which made me second guess myself. Thanks Stefan this is exactly what I needed.
                  '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
                  '02 F-150 Supercrew
                  '02 Excursion 4x4
                  '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    oxygen sensor

                    Sounds like you changed just about everything except the oxygen sensor.
                    Better check it.
                    It can cause all sorts of erratic behavior.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The touble code was the "coolant temperature sensor". I know this can cause problems with the fuel injectors so could this also be causing the idling problems? It would seem to make sense but then again I've been wrong about 10 times other times on this car. I'm going to test the sensor tomorrow but at least it's a place to start.
                      '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
                      '02 F-150 Supercrew
                      '02 Excursion 4x4
                      '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Timing belt.....?????????
                        It is very easy to changr a festy timing belt anf thik you ahve it correct when you are off by one tooth on the cam. Very easy mistake.

                        Don't panic!

                        Check and adjust the timing. If you have to swing the disty to on extreme to settle the engine idle the belt is off by one tooth. Just move the belt one tooth opposite the direction you turned the disty.

                        I have made this mistake twice....I can not explaine why...other than I know it is a common problem with the Festiva.
                        Joe Lutz

                        The SKATE ..... 1992L 5spd
                        The Greatest Purchase I Ever Made

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jglutz View Post
                          Timing belt.....?????????
                          It is very easy to changr a festy timing belt anf thik you ahve it correct when you are off by one tooth on the cam. Very easy mistake.

                          Don't panic!

                          Check and adjust the timing. If you have to swing the disty to on extreme to settle the engine idle the belt is off by one tooth. Just move the belt one tooth opposite the direction you turned the disty.

                          I have made this mistake twice....I can not explaine why...other than I know it is a common problem with the Festiva.
                          Hey Joe, after you made this suggestion a week or so ago I went back to my mechanic who did the head change and explained what you thought might be the problem. He, myself and one other mechanic got under the hood and went to work. We first checked the timing which was good (oh and the timing belt is new too). To settle my curiosity we experiemented with the distributor position which only made things worse. We checked the timing again and it was still good. After an hour we finally concluded that timing was not the issue so we moved to the TPS (this is where I messed up). I changed the TPS without testing it (stupid on my part) and it wasn't the problem. Tonight I finally was able to pull the trouble code and it came back as the coolant temperature sensor. After doing some research I'm thinking this might be at least part of the problem.

                          Please know that I really, really appreciate your ideas and have explored them fully. You obviously know a lot more than I do about these cars so if you think of anything else please share. Thanks Again
                          '93 Festiva GL / "HOT ROD"
                          '02 F-150 Supercrew
                          '02 Excursion 4x4
                          '98 Jeep Cherokee Classic Limited

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            the coolant temp sensor on the intake can mess up every aspect of the engine ( starting, idle,acel, cruise......)

                            just change it with a well known manufacturer ($15-30)



                            I am the original

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i can attest to that pesky coolant temp sensor screwing everything up. my dsm had one and when it went out it did pretty much everything bigwheel is reporting. once replaced everything was fine again. it also went out very suddenly. started it up drove to work went to fire it and drive home and it would not fire for a long time, once it did fire it ran horribly.
                              is not sposed ta do that...
                              05 subaru legacy gt
                              1991 nissan nx2000(almost awesome as a festiva, my first failed mtx)
                              1988(?) festiva LX 5spd (rescued from crusher,aspire swap done, working on turbocharging the 1.3...)

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