Dies in idle...HELP!

[froggyrocket]

My dad gave his old 88 festiva L (166,000 miles) to me. I was told to fix what I can myself because doing it myself is free!

Up until two weeks ago, the car didn't run for about 2 years (sat in the garage with gas in the tank-dad bought a new car). I have changed the fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and rotor and distributor cap.
About 2 weeks ago we also put two different STP products in the gas tank to clean the carbuerator, reduce possible gas tank water, etc. The car wouldn't run in idle, so we had to keep the engine revved up while in the garage. We adjusted the idle screw (the white plastic knob on the back of the carberator) We were able to get it to where it would not die but the idle was kind of high and the rpm's would go up and down on it's own. After driving it one day without problems, it started dying as soon as you started to coast to a stop. I can, however, drive 65 down the highway without any problems/the engine runs smooth and even. It runs great when using the gas pedal.
Yesterday, we ran out of gas on the highway (fuel gauge doesn't work), so I've burned through two bottles of fuel/carberator cleaners. As of now, no matter what you adjust on the idle set screw nob, it will die. Occasionally the engine stays alive in idle.
So that's my strory. Drives fine with high rpms, but dies whenever you take your foot off the gas. If you can help me I'd appreciate it but I'm only 17 yrs old and not a mechanic so please keep your explanations simple.
Thanks!

[hawkdoc60]

There is most likely rust in the fuel tank. The rust in the tank, in my experience, flakes off and floats around. It is probably getting sucked up against the filter sock on the intake of the tank. This is also where your fuel sending unit is. I would recommend draining the tank, and taking the fuel sending unit assembly out. To do this, you need to gain access to the top of the tank. Remove the rear carpet and there is a plate with a couple hoses and a plug on it. Take out the screws and the unit comes out. I'll bet you find the fuel sending unit is disintegrating and rust clinging to the sock. I would flush out the tank with the drain bolt out and repair/replace the sending unit assembly. Just a suggestion.

If you don't see evidence of rust in the tank, then you may be dealing with an ignition module problem. This is in the distributor.

Hopefully one of these suggestions will point you in the right direction.

[greenjunk]

The EGR valve is stuck open, you need to remove the vaccuum line and plug it for starters, its not needed, then tap it with a screwdriver handle or a hammer (carefully) and try to get it to close, or you can take it off and clean it. I got mine unstuck, and its been fine since. Its located on the passenger side just above the alternator (i think)

[froggyrocket]

Hawkdoc60 -

This is froggyrocket's dad. I appreciate your reply. If this is caused by rust in the fuel tank, why can we consistently cruise down the highway with no problem? I will say that when we were driving on the highway I could step on the brake fairly quickly/hard and the car would start to die. We'd let it sit on the side of the road for 30-60 seconds and it would crank up just fine and off we'd go. At the time I thought it was probably water in the fuel tank being pushed to the front of the tank due to the braking/centrifugal force (tho I confess I'm not sure if the fuel line is in the front of the tank or not). What's the chance this is due to water in the tank? (tho I suspect otherwise since now it usually won't stay running in idle now). Anyway, I'm in no way saying you're wrong (since I note at 4 Festivas you are a Festiva connosieur) I just don't understand how rust can consistently clog the filter sock at low idle but not higher RPMs.

Any further edu-ma-cation would be appreciated!

[froggyrocket]

greenjunk -

Same question for you...how does the EGR valve cause the engine to die in idle but not at higher RPMs? And yes, I confess I have no freakin' idea what the EGR valve does.

Will try both recommendations if needed. Just trying to get smarter. Thx!

[Jasin]

Do a compression test(very easy on Festiva's) and see what you find out, or cylinder leakage test

[GenevaDirt]

I am sure with it sitting for a couple of years that the carb needs to be redone/gone over. There have been numerous threads on here discussing the same type of issues you are speaking of. The cabs are finicky but are great when running right.

[FestYboy]

ok, i'll go over what you've said sofar. won't idle, but runs great down the highway. easy: you've got a clog in your idle circuit. the tank is good, and the filter isn't clogging. one other solution would be the fuel pump is getting weak and not providing enough pressure to the carb bowl ( i doubt this theory).

as for the EGR, it is supposed to recurculate exhaust gasses back into the intake to reduce oxides of nitrogen (cooling the cumbustion event and replacing some cyl volume). since exhaust doesn't like to burn, it can cause the engine to run roughly at idle and less so at higher RPMs, but it would have to be stuck open ALOT to cause it to die. one benefit to the EGR is slightly higher MPGs at cruise because of the "dead" gasses taking the place of a full charge. so with it working properly, at cruise, you esentially have a 1.1 or 1.2L engine instead of the full 1.3L.

[Jasin]

Rev engine to high RPM, then place leather glove over the carb. air inlet. This will create a suction to clear out debris in tiny passages. Adjust the idle mixture screws--if turning the screws has little or no effect on idle speed and smoothness, then the idle circuit is not functioning properly. Carb. may need overhauled.
Do a compression check to see where you stand mechanically- very easy to do.

[FestYboy]

don't touch the air mix screw (it's protected by a cap for a reason)

[Damkid]

i don't know a whole lot about the carb'd models but if it's been sitting for a while maybe the carb could use a re-build

[greenjunk]

the egr valve being stuck open even a little will cause a vaccuum leak in the intake causing no fuel to be drawn through the carb, by revving it higher the signal is multiple times greater thus overcoming the vacuum leak. When the rpms drop the vacuum leak is too great for there to be enough signal to pull the fuel through the idle circuit, thus dies when at idle, starts and runs with the pedal down. On a fuel injected car the computer is able to compensate for this much more, and will generally cause a high lean idle, or a very rough idle. A carb car is stupid, it rely's only on the physics of air flowing through a venturi or vacuum to pull fuel through the idle circuit, the absense of that equals no idle...

[Jasin]

Many carbs. have sealed idle mixture screws that are preset at the factory. Unless major carb. repairs have been made, do not tamper with these screws. To avoid violation of fed. law, follow the manufacturer's procedures for carb. adjustments.
That being said.....

I would say just mark/be aware of its original location(yes I know they are capped-doesn't scare me none).

I mean really, if your working on a 88 Festiva? don't worry about it
Let me know if you get arrested though

[hawkdoc60]

Hawkdoc60 -

This is froggyrocket's dad. I appreciate your reply. If this is caused by rust in the fuel tank, why can we consistently cruise down the highway with no problem? I will say that when we were driving on the highway I could step on the brake fairly quickly/hard and the car would start to die. We'd let it sit on the side of the road for 30-60 seconds and it would crank up just fine and off we'd go. At the time I thought it was probably water in the fuel tank being pushed to the front of the tank due to the braking/centrifugal force (tho I confess I'm not sure if the fuel line is in the front of the tank or not). What's the chance this is due to water in the tank? (tho I suspect otherwise since now it usually won't stay running in idle now). Anyway, I'm in no way saying you're wrong (since I note at 4 Festivas you are a Festiva connosieur) I just don't understand how rust can consistently clog the filter sock at low idle but not higher RPMs.

Any further edu-ma-cation would be appreciated!

In my mind, I had it backwards. Now, I am thinking vacuum leak, especially with you saying that when you press the brakes, it will sometimes die. I had a Ford truck that had an internal vacuum leak in the brake booster and it would die every time you pressed the brakes. It also affected the idle. I would look for vacuum leaks on and around the engine and also listen to see if you hear a hissing sound coming from the brake booster both with the brake pedal pushed in and released.

[b8kedbeans]

There is a dual-chamber vacuum advance canister connected to the distributor. There are two hoses connected to the canister. The canister should not leak air when vacuum is applied at either hose. Check this part for leaks (using a vacuum gauge). I had a leaky canister on my 89 and it caused a poor driving condition but it idled fine. Maybe you have a leak in the opposite chamber and you are getting poor idle?

Also running a vacuum test (see the sticky in this section) is a good place to start to get an idea of the state of your engine.

Good luck and keep us in the loop!