Festiva Head Gasket Replacement ???

[bryanl1]

How difficult is it to replace a Festiva head gasket and timing belt?

I have a '92 Festiva that needs a head gasket, so while it's apart, I want to change the timing belt as well. I got estimates from 2 different repair shops. One of them said $1,110 and the other one said $968. Is this job THAT labor intensive? I'm not a mechanic, so I don't know all of whats involved in this job, but that seems like a LOT of money. How many hours should it take to do this? I know the gasket set is $89 and the head would have to be machined a little, so I figured the job should be between $400 and $500. Is there something more difficult about this job than it looks like on the surface?

Thanks,
Bryan

[bryanl1]

FYI, it's a 5 speed and it doesn't have A/C.

Bryan

[gdawgs]

Yes that does seem like a lot of money. I got an estimate for head gasket replacement on the Neon I used to have, and it came to a similar amount.

On some cars it can take a long time to do(I would think like on a mini van, where you can't access the back three cylinders, you'd probably have to pull the engine)

But on a Festiva, it's pretty easy. I don't think it would take a good mechanic more than a couple hours.

Do you have any mechanical skills at all? If so, you may want to consider doing the job yourself and save $800-900. A shop manual walks you through it very well.

[FB71]

dude, that sounds high. Its about a 4-5 hour job for a professional tech. Depending on the dollar per hour, and what other parts they'll need, I'd guess $600-$700. They need to replace the valve cover gasket, will want to replace the waterpump (while they're there), etc. Shop a little more.

[bryanl1]

How does $300 for a 90k mile engine from a yard sound instead?

Bryan

[gdawgs]

I think I'd go that route instead. Then you can bone up on your mechanical skills on the old engine and replace that head gasket in your spare time. Then you'll have a spare engine.

[getitqwik]

It is a pretty detailed job for a Novice, what you got to understand is ALL your major external engine components basically have to be removed, as well as battery, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, draining oil and antifreeze. Timing belt and cover. LUNCH AND BEERTIME! Cylinder head bolts are removed and installed in 1/4 inch increments AND a particular sequence to keep from warping the head; removing AND installing it. The YARD motor is better deal then replace at your leisure and education... the heads. Festivas are great cars but also touchy. Figure on 6 hours work in a PRO shop, including head resurfacing. Calculate your parts costs and labor costs per hour and there you are except for usual shop expendable parts fee and taxes and dinner for mechanic. Let me know!!! For 1100 dollars I would drive there and do it myself!!!

[gdawgs]

It is a pretty detailed job for a Novice, what you got to understand is ALL your major external engine components basically have to be removed, as well as battery, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, draining oil and antifreeze. Timing belt and cover. LUNCH AND BEERTIME! Cylinder head bolts are removed and installed in 1/4 inch increments AND a particular sequence to keep from warping the head; removing AND installing it. The YARD motor is better deal then replace at your leisure and education... the heads. Festivas are great cars but also touchy.

This is all standard procedure on any car. Head bolts, 1/4 turn perhaps, certainly not 1/4 inch.

A head gasket replacement is definately not a job for someone with no mechanical skills, but for someone who has done some car work, it's not that tough.

I wouldn't consider Festivas tricky. They are about as simple as cars get.

6 hours, maybe with your really long beer break. I could do it in half that time assuming no major setbacks( and not including machining time if required(which isn't always necessary).

[getitqwik]

Sounds like you don't drink a lot of beer and dinner too don't forget. A shop by flat rate manual does not charge what time a pro mechanic can do it in but by the book flat rate. YOU KNOW THIS!! Also I am only offering a hint at difficulty for a NOVICE. 1/4 inch increments may be standard but to a novice that is important. Sequencing and remove and replace has been the bad job of many an experienced mechanic because they think it is not an important requirement. WARPED HEADS ARE EASY TO DO. Thanks for the reply though. I don't hold myself out to be a pro just an "I BUY 'EM DEAD" type of mechanic.

[gdawgs]

I'm certainly not claiming to be a mechanic, but I rarely take a car to a shop. Twice that I can remember. 1) For diagnostics. 2) To change an inner tie rod end. I couldn't get to it with the tools I have so I took it in.

As far as tightening sequence and such, if you look at my earlier post, I stated that you need to buy the shop manual and follow the procedure. All this is laid out in the book.

[getitqwik]

:evil: What about the BEER and DINNER? I concede you are an accomplished mechanic sir.

[gdawgs]

Oh I'll take a break and eat dinner, but you caught me with the beer. I don't drink. :lol:

I wouldn't say accomplished mechanic, but I do most of my own repairs. I won't touch transmissions though. Luckily I've never had an transmission problems.

My next project is an MG midget that we own. It needs a clutch replacement, but it's a real pain on these things. The engine/tranny need to pulled in order to do it. And the British did lots of strange things when they designed cars. So we'll see what happens with that. With those cars you pretty much have to do the repairs yourself because very few mechanics will work on them(pretty much none in our area, maybe down in Minneapolis somewhere).

[bryanl1]

I must be slow, because it took me almost 9 hours just to get it all apart. In my defense, I was carefully reading and following the steps in the "Haynes Manual", Some of which aren't necessary. When using the manual you often have to jump around from one section of the book to another. I must have looked for the Shrader Valve (relieving fuel pressure) for a half hour alone, which I NEVER found! Its not where the picture says that it is in the book! It turns out that I didn't have to screw with the fuel pressure anyway, because I took the entire fuel injection system off along with the intake manifold as one piece and left it in the car. I must have spent an hour and a half getting those 2 mother f&*$ing phillips head screws off of the crank pulley. What the hell are they there for anyhow? I stripped the hell out of them and when I called the dealer for new ones, the parts guy told me they are listed as "not necessary to replace" in the computer. The head is at the machine shop now getting a valve job and checkup. Hopefully putting it all back together won't be as much of a pain (except for the intake manifold, which will be hell).

Do any of you guys know for sure if I need to replace those 2 screws? Also, is there any way to check for a cracked block while the head is off? The coolant in the oil most likely was just a worn head gasket, but I'd like to know for sure BEFORE I put this baby back together.

Hopefully, I'll get this thing up and running this weekend. I'll leave a post to let you guys know how it turned out.

Thanks,
Bryan

[Sandm849]

I found this to be relatively simple, especially compared to other head gaskets in other cars. Then again it is also my job to fix cars. Basically, just make sure you mark your timing belt and timing belt pulleys with paint (white out works too) that way you know exactly where to put the timing belt back on. And I left the intake manifold and exhaust manifold attached when I picked the head up...its not heavy, im a 135lb scrawny b***h. Then just make sure your gasket area is totally clean before putting on the new gasket and torquing the head down. As long as you have the tools, the time, and the book in case you get confused you really can mess up, unless it isn't your head gasket and its a warped/cracked head. All in all it took me about 4 hours and I replaced the valve stem seals while I had the head off of the car.

good luck

[gdawgs]

I must be slow, because it took me almost 9 hours just to get it all apart. In my defense, I was carefully reading and following the steps in the "Haynes Manual", Bryan

No, you're not slow, just being careful, which is good. If this is the first one you ever did, it's bound to take more time. The second/third... time you do a job always goes much quicker since you learn the little tricks. Like I said, if everything goes well(which it rarely does), it doesn't take very long. Like you mentioned, one or two stuck bolts can really set you back.