Oil in coolant

[rotinaj13]

I know that this has been asked a few times, trust me I searched through 15 pages. I have noticed an oil loss on my festiva roughly every 1000 miles of driving i lose about 3/4 of a quart. I noticed a tiny puff on start up when it sat more than 12 hours but last no more than 5 seconds worth then no noticable smoke what so ever. I checked for leaks by parking on white cardboard, nothing. I checked my coolant today and seen all brown at the top of the radiator more than an inch deep. I realize from other posts that this could be a warped head, bad HG, cracked head. Any other possibilities? The head gasket is roughly 4 - 6 months old. I did a rebuild and checked the head with a carpenters square and feeler gauges and from what I remember it was ok. There is no coolant in the oil what so ever, have checked several times. Are there any tests I can perform with the engine still assembled which will shed some light on this. I do not want to tear it down until I have an idea of what it is! FB71 your insight would be extremely appreciated!! Im tired of lugging around gallon jugs of oil like u had to do with unclefester!!!

[FB71]

holy crap!!!!! It's the Janitor!!!! Where ya been?!

Sounds like the head gasket still. A carpenter's square is no where straight/flat enough to check the head. Most likely, the head needs to be milled.

[frogman]

Check the oil on the dip stick. Is it sort of foamy or froathed up after it sets for a few minutes. Sign of a head gasket leak for the best news, cracked block for the worst news.
Puff or small amount of smoke on start-up is a sign of bad valve stem seals.

[rotinaj13]

Jim: LOL how have you been buddy? I know its been a long time!! I have been so busy that I have barely had time to take care of myself. Bought two houses to rent out finished the reno on the first starting on the second. Also finished my undergrad last year and half way through my masters atm. What would u recommend to use as a straight edge to check this? The carpenter square was the only thing I had here that was long enough to stretch corner to corner. I will agree it probably is warped, I have had this happen a time or two seems even when following the sequence for removing the headbolts they warp my aspire did that, or a previous owner overheated it! I always turn the key if it gets 3/4 to the hot side its not worth the extra mile or two! Also I checked the thread on ur rescue opp for PU's festy, would you mind outlining how you dressed the head and deck? It was the first time I have ever heard of polishing those! I was always taught to clean old gasket off and use a lot of brake clean and a razor to prep it. BTW damn nice work Jim!!!

Frogman: Yeah I figured it was the valve seals that caused the burn on startup but I did not replace them on the rebuild i did it budget and did not touch the valve seals figured if I had an issue I would pump the cycl and do it with the engine in if it was a problem. Nope the oil looks like oil and stays somewhat clean till halfway to the next oil change and thats with dino and 120 miles of driving each day.

Are there any tests I can perform that will help to verify this? I have to wait till I get my mom's festy out of the garage (rear dustshields for drum rotted away and with it went the brakes). Figured while I waited for parts I could do some tests since I will not rip the head off of the beast till I get it inside. Thanks guys!

[festyxfi]

My buddy's aspire had this same issue going on: oil in the coolent overflow, with no evidence of water in the oil (strange) he was able to keep driving the car for almost a year this way, but it was gutless and eventually started overheating no matter how he drove it. We finally figured it was a leaky headgasket, he replaced it, but didn't remill the head, 1000 miles later it happened again.

I'm far from one of the gurus here that should be listened to for sound mechanical advice, just thought I'd share a simular story to confirm it's probably the headgasket and warped head.

FX

[frogman]

A leak down test probably would'nt do much good if the valve seals are going away. Would tell you which cyl. was the worst.
Think I would check with some auto parts stores for the cheapest shop that would resurface the head and go for the top end overhaul.

[FB71]

Jim: LOL how have you been buddy? I know its been a long time!! I have been so busy that I have barely had time to take care of myself. Bought two houses to rent out finished the reno on the first starting on the second. Also finished my undergrad last year and half way through my masters atm. What would u recommend to use as a straight edge to check this? The carpenter square was the only thing I had here that was long enough to stretch corner to corner. I will agree it probably is warped, I have had this happen a time or two seems even when following the sequence for removing the headbolts they warp my aspire did that, or a previous owner overheated it! I always turn the key if it gets 3/4 to the hot side its not worth the extra mile or two! Also I checked the thread on ur rescue opp for PU's festy, would you mind outlining how you dressed the head and deck? It was the first time I have ever heard of polishing those! I was always taught to clean old gasket off and use a lot of brake clean and a razor to prep it. BTW damn nice work Jim!!!!

Awesome!! Glad to hear you're making progress!!!!

OK, you need a machinist's straight edge to properly check the head. At this point, I would just assume it's warped. It will need to be milled, probably 0.010".

As for Pu241's car, I had to replace the head. His was warped beyond salvage. I didn't "polish" the head and deck, I smoothed the surface with some 600grit Wet-R-Dry and WD-40. The block deck had some small imperfections from a previous repair, but was still flat (less than 0.001"). Same with the used head, flat but a few scratches. A razor blade and solvent is still the best way to remove old gaskets. And thanks for the compliment!

[rotinaj13]

The reason I was curious about testing is because unless the head warped from removal I did not have this issue before the rebuild. I used the sequence in the book for removal. I was thinking that possibly the relief valve is stuck on the oil pump and that is the reason why it blow the gasket as it did. I have had a warped head issue on my aspire when I replaced the transmission, too many burnouts. Funny thing is my head was fine on my aspire until i pulled it using the hooks on the head, once i got it back together it was pressurizing the cooling jacket with exhaust gas. With this engine I moved it around with the picker by the hooks but only the engine when I put it back in I lifted the front end and slid the powerplant under and lowered the shell to it. Would a stuck relief valve in the oil pump cause this or would it b more likely to blow a seal rather than the head gasket. Also would an oil pressure gauge indicate this, like extremely high pressure? I just do not want to tear this down and have it happen again because this car is a daily driver and I will have to get it back together in one day. But while it is down I do want to check my cycl walls to make sure the break in went ok and no glazed walls. Should have went ok though you know me I drive them like I stole them!! But I did notice that it is not messing with the performance of the engine for a b3 it runs like a raped ape! I romped on it on the highway the other day and it got to 90 pretty quick.

[eurotiva]

Every time you remove an aluminum head it should be milled. IMO.

[FB71]

The reason I was curious about testing is because unless the head warped from removal I did not have this issue before the rebuild. I used the sequence in the book for removal. I was thinking that possibly the relief valve is stuck on the oil pump and that is the reason why it blow the gasket as it did. I have had a warped head issue on my aspire when I replaced the transmission, too many burnouts. Funny thing is my head was fine on my aspire until i pulled it using the hooks on the head, once i got it back together it was pressurizing the cooling jacket with exhaust gas. With this engine I moved it around with the picker by the hooks but only the engine when I put it back in I lifted the front end and slid the powerplant under and lowered the shell to it. Would a stuck relief valve in the oil pump cause this or would it b more likely to blow a seal rather than the head gasket. Also would an oil pressure gauge indicate this, like extremely high pressure? I just do not want to tear this down and have it happen again because this car is a daily driver and I will have to get it back together in one day. But while it is down I do want to check my cycl walls to make sure the break in went ok and no glazed walls. Should have went ok though you know me I drive them like I stole them!! But I did notice that it is not messing with the performance of the engine for a b3 it runs like a raped ape! I romped on it on the highway the other day and it got to 90 pretty quick.

if the oil system were overpressurized, the first thing to usually go is the oil filter o-ring, since that's the fist seal/gasket after the pump. It's also much weaker than the head gasket. An oil pressure check will verify system pressure and releif valve operation. At 2500 RPM, engine at operating temp, you should have 40-60psi.

I still believe the head is warped slightly, or a slim possibility of debris between the gasket and head or block.

[FB71]

Every time you remove an aluminum head it should be milled. IMO.

you can only mill so much material. The proper proceedure is to check flatness with a machinist's straight edge. If there is less than 0.001" (0.02mm) variance in the surface, machining is uneccessary.

[rotinaj13]

Yeah I remember on my aspire when I had the head milled they said they could not mill it again they took the max amount off to correct the warp. Well guess I will have to split it soon. more than likely after this week since we are getting more snow. idk how well my 2 wheel drive f250 would do in all this snow but my festy did pretty good till i hit a drift that picked the frame up and gently spit my car in a ditch! how are u doing in MD jim? ur not out from with a corn cob pipe looking like frosty are ya bub? I heard ur region got it a little worse than we did and it got bad here

[FB71]

yeah, we got 30" this weekend and expecting another 8"-12" Tues night.... I frickin' hate winter...