Timing question

[ericsmith32]

Is there anyway to set the timing with the timing belt covers? Replaced the crank and cam seals and before I pulled the timing belt off I noticed the the timing belt was off by one tooth. The timing belt is new and it lined up perfectly and unfortunately when I was finally able to put it back together, worked on it 8 hours. I tried to replicate how it was as it was running great but couldn't. The timing covers were mangled by the "PO" and probably wouldn't give the right reading if I put them back on. It was bogging down and few trips around the block I think I've got timing how it should be or close anyways. Is that the only way to set timing without the cover?

[ericsmith32]

Well that answers that! Still bogs down a bit on the highway but I think that's normal. I think I have it almost turned clockwise as far as it will go... not sure how far I can go as it hasn't pinged yet.

[Festy46]

I assume you have the valve timing correct and you are talking about ignition timing. You will need a tool called a "positive stop" to find top dead center. It looks like a special bolt that you screw in the #1 spark plug hole. After you have the positive stop installed correctly in the spark plug hole, cut out a half circle out of cardboard about the size of the outside diameter of the crankshaft pulley. Tape it to the car frame so it is directly opposite and facing the crankshaft pulley. Locate the timing mark on your crankshaft pulley and rotate the pulley by hand or with a wrench (DO NOT USE THE STARTER TO ROTATE THE ENGINE) counterclockwise until the #1 piston contacts the positive stop and won't turn any farther. Don't force it when the piston contacts the positive stop or you can damage your piston.

Now use something as a straight edge and line up the timing mark on the pulley and hold the straight edge as close to a right angle to the pulley as you can and make a mark on your cardboard half circle. Now rotate the crankshaft pulley clockwise until it contacts the positive stop and mark a spot on the cardboard like you did before. Remove the positive stop and re-install the spark plug. Measure the total distance the 2 marks are apart from each other by following the arc of your cardboad and divide it in half. Put another mark on your cardboard half circle that is exactly half way between. That mark will be very close to top dead center. Now measure about 5/8" to 3/4" back toward the back of your car from the center mark on your cardboard and make another mark. That mark will be about 10 degrees BTDC. When you connect your timing light this spot and your mark on the crankshaft pulley should be very close to lining up. If you happen to have an actual degree wheel you can get even closer, but this should get you running good if you haven't messed up the valve timing.

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[eurotiva]

^ That's the proper way to find and set the timing on any car. Nice and descriptive.

On a festiva, there is a small notch on the lower timing gear. It is on the side closest to the block. Above the gear there is a pointer coming off of the oilpump housing. Line the notch/pointer up. That's tdc. Then line the mark on the cam gear up with the pointer that is on the valve cover. It's a small V at the top of the radius that supports the plastic cover. Hope this helps.

[perucho]

^ when the lower timing gear matches the pointer, is that TDC in the compression stroke? Or does it match for both compression and exhaust strokes?

[ericsmith32]

Interesting... Thanks Festy! The timing belt is put in right.. this would be about the seventh timing belt I've done. Only had to mess with the timing once before though! I'm a bit green with it still.

[eurotiva]

^ when the lower timing gear matches the pointer, is that TDC in the compression stroke? Or does it match for both compression and exhaust strokes?

Compression stroke. #1 tdc, with both valves closed.

[ericsmith32]

Hmmm it seems that I have my disty turned clock-wise as far as she'll go.. when it gets warmer may have to see what the timing is actually set at. Running excellent the idle is a bit high though sure will move for being a automatic! No pinging with 87 but I have STP and MMO in there right now. Must be keeping it from pinging. Going to run 91-93 octane from now on and this spring it's getting a MSD coil and all brass ignition components. Unless it starts pinging when it gets warmer I see no need to change it... I'd be surprised if it didn't ping when it hits 80's or 90's.

[Pu241]

I don't know that MMO is doing anything positive for the octane rating of your fuel.

http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/MM010-4.pdf

The Naphthenic HC's and Mineral Spirits(Stoddard solvent) aren't likely to have high octane ratings.
Especially that 1% of less of chlorinated hydrocarbons.
Not a good idea to shove chlorinated material through your engine.

[ericsmith32]

It's been around long before I was born I imagine if MMO hurt anything it would be long gone by now. I've been using it for a couple years now. Does a excellent job cleaning the insides.

[Pu241]

Not saying anything about its ability to clean.
Chlorinated solvents have excellent solvating capabilities.
But they should not be fed into an ICE.
Just because a product has been on the market a long time is no indication of it suitability for an application.
The damage from this level of halogenated solvent used sparingly should be minimal.
But I can guarantee that contact of fuel components(pump/sender/fuel line) with halogenated solvents will cause them damage.
At what level or time scale I can't be certain, the dilution, 1%, will help and not letting the fuel sit in your tank for long periods of time is probably prudent.
But it's your car, I'm not telling you what to do, just letting you know a few facts.

[ericsmith32]

But I can guarantee that contact of fuel components(pump/sender/fuel line) with halogenated solvents will cause them damage.

Funny most comment how much quieter fuel pumps are while using the product. 1% is minuscule amount compared the gallons of gas in a tank. BTW this is common argument over at BITOG and nobody has proven that it is harmful in any engine... fact or opinion which ever way you want to look at it. ccasion5: