alternator went full field ,now car won't run!

[slimone]

the other day my charge light came on ,was about two miles from home .By the time I got home it had blown off the battery caps died comeing in my driveway, replaced the alternator. Now it will not run at all.Checked for spark ,Have spark,seems to not be getting fuel, lost all power to fuel pump and no power to inertia switch. Checked fuses all good ,checked fuse links also ok , tried to start with carb spray in throttle body ,not even a splutter. Now sure where to go next on this thing ,Can any one help me to diagnose this problem? Realy need this car running to dam old to walk or ride a bike LOL. Thanks Slimone

[Zivon23]

How are the Fuses under the dash? All good? What about the Fusable link in the engine compartment? I have has alot of problems with those in the past.

Just a thought.

[XFSE71]

You said all fuses are good but no voltage to FP or inertia sw. The Engine Fuse (10A) under dash is suspect. Try testing voltage at other engine control components. If there is no voltage at your TP sensor then look for the open main circuit. This may be only 5V so a test light is not the best method. Carb spray may not be the right stuff to spray into the TB expecting to light a fire either. The EPA has deflamed most of the stuff we can buy today to protect the enviourment. But since your spray into the throttle body did nothing lets look at secondary ignition. You said you had spark. Was that at the plugs or at the coil wire on the distributor cap? Pull the distributor cap and rotor. Look carefully at the rotor for blackened burning. You may spot a trace where the spark has been going wrong. The rotor may be burned through and dumping your spark to ground through the distributor shaft ($4 part). Your fuel system (EFI) runs at 64 to 85 PSI KOEO (Key On Engine Off) and 28 to 40 PSI KOER (Key On Engine Running). It's tricky to test without the proper equipment since there is no Schreader valve.You should hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds to prime the system on initial key on. There is a Fuel Pump Test Connector under hood LR. Jumper the GN/R wire to the BK then test for voltage at the inertia sw GN/W & GN/Y. If V=Y then circuit is OK look at pump. If V=N then test FP relay. I would suspect a blown fuse before a burned component, but stuff can happen.

[doylerl]

You said all fuses are good but no voltage to FP or inertia sw. The Engine Fuse (10A) under dash is suspect. Try testing voltage at other engine control components. If there is no voltage at your TP sensor then look for the open main circuit. This may be only 5V so a test light is not the best method. Carb spray may not be the right stuff to spray into the TB expecting to light a fire either. The EPA has deflamed most of the stuff we can buy today to protect the enviourment. But since your spray into the throttle body did nothing lets look at secondary ignition. You said you had spark. Was that at the plugs or at the coil wire on the distributor cap? Pull the distributor cap and rotor. Look carefully at the rotor for blackened burning. You may spot a trace where the spark has been going wrong. The rotor may be burned through and dumping your spark to ground through the distributor shaft ($4 part). Your fuel system (EFI) runs at 64 to 85 PSI KOEO (Key On Engine Off) and 28 to 40 PSI KOER (Key On Engine Running). It's tricky to test without the proper equipment since there is no Schreader valve.You should hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds to prime the system on initial key on. There is a Fuel Pump Test Connector under hood LR. Jumper the GN/R wire to the BK then test for voltage at the inertia sw GN/W & GN/Y. If V=Y then circuit is OK look at pump. If V=N then test FP relay. I would suspect a blown fuse before a burned component, but stuff can happen.

Not a bad write-up for just a second post!

[slimone]

Hi , Have spark at the plugs ,have 5 volts at the tps ,have power at the main relay, found three relays under dash on left side one I think is the timer relay and one I'am guessing is horn relay because the horn blows when I test it , the other not sure about ,the color of the wires don't match fuelpump harness ( have it uncovered) Is there another one that I haven't found yet? also what is v=y and v=n ? checked all fuse's and fuse links All good. still looking . Thanks Slimone

[Pu241]

Not a bad write-up for just a second post!

That's because he's from Superior!

Note he even got his location in his profile.
This man needs an award!
If we give them for "screwups" then we need to give them for getting things right!

Monsoon, please find an appropriate award for XFSE71.

[MONSOON]

Done!

[Pu241]

Thanks!

I suspect this wont be used very often, but he did deserve it!

[FestYboy]

i only see one issue with XFSE71's post and that's NORMALY, your fuel pump will prime before cranking, or any time the key is put in the on poisition. But for our Festivas, the pump is activated via a signal from the VAF and no pressure will be present before cranking.

other than that, it sounds right on the money!

[JohnGunn]

... Checked for spark ,Have spark ...

... tried to start with carb spray in throttle body ,not even a splutter. ...

These two facts don't compute. If you have spark and it doesn't ignite carb spray, you should take another look at the label on the can.

Don't do anything else until you solve this mystery.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[slimone]

Hi Well the ign control module isn't makeing spark today,it fires once on two pulgs an thats it no more fire, Have been starting cars for over 30 years with carb spray but only when there is spark, any way checking into it parts place wants almost 200 bucks for it plus another 70 for the fuel pump relay, can't afford to put out that kind of money just now , so it goes into the storage yard for a while . Just want to say Thanks guys for the advice, Have a good day Slimone

[drddan]

Your module in the distributor went out, when alt went full. Around here it is cheaper to buy a disty, than to buy the module new. Unless you get one from a junk yard! I know all bout that now, from a recent experience. Just ask Greg(eurotiva), he yelled at me for not listening to his advice :p J/K Greg! Ha!

Slimone, welcome to the site! And Wow :shock: What a write up! That is a lot of good information. Bookmarked.

[JohnGunn]

drddan: I notice your Festiva is an '88, which I know very little about. But I just looked at his past posts and found his is a '93 model, so I think you and he may be working at cross purposes. When slimone mentions Ignition Module I think he means something attached to the coil bracket. Not something inside the distributor.

Slimone: Let me encourage you to hang in a little longer. At least until it has been established exactly what part is failing. I just read this whole thread and don't believe that has been established. At least not to my satisfaction.

I notice from your past postings that you are an experienced mechanic, but have had no experience dealing with Festivas. So let me tell you how most of us deal with finding replacement parts for our Festivas. First, if you have a storage yard as you suggest, you might think of finding another EFI Festiva, running or not, to buy as a parts car, for $100. Next best would be to locate your model Festiva in a local salvage yard. The Ignition Module you mentioned as costing $200 new would cost there only about $10. Maybe even less since it is so small and unimpressive looking. (By the way, I looked that part up and it costs $93.99 at my local AutoZone parts store.) There is a "for sale/wanted to buy" forum on this site where you often find used parts for reasonable rates. Ebay is another place where parts can be found.

BUT, let me stress, you should not start replacing parts yet. Spend a few more days getting to know your car - patiently analyzing what is going on with it.

Several members have volunteered to help you and are up to speed on the current state of the car. It would be a shame to waste all their effort, not to mention you own, before they either come to some agreement on what part to replace or run out of ideas for identifying it. If you put your car in storage, when you bring it out the next time you'll have to start this whole process over again. And I doubt parts will be any cheaper then.

I think I understand how you're feeling. When you have a systemic failure of the electrical system the damage can be far reaching and difficult to identify. Anything that relies on electrical power could have been damaged. At first the task of finding which one is frankly overwhelming. I know that feeling. I have been there.

In such a situation, I have found there is one approach which has always helped me. Simplify. Instead of bouncing from one theory to the next like the ball in a pin ball machine, establish the most likely source of the failure and forget everything else. Concentrate on correcting that. Fixing that may be the solution, but, if it isn't, go on to the next most likely suspect. Eventually the problem will be identified and fixed. We - feel happy, you - relieved and proud, and we all - the better for it.

With this in mind, I'll tell you what I would do if I were in your situation. First, slow down. In stead of seeing this as an unpleasant bother that you want fixed as soon as possible, think of it an opportunity to learn more about your marvelous car. I and most members here think it is one fantastic automobile. It is an inexpensive, easy to maintain, economical, reliable, and fun to drive car. But it is much more. Here is a case of a thing which is more than a mere listing of its attributes can convey. I see it as the product of some exceptional designers who had a clear vision of what personal transportation in a country like the US should ideally be. I would place their vision up there in a league with Henry Ford.

I suggest you focus on either the ignition system or the fuel system, not both at once. Since the problem was caused by an electrical failure, I would favor starting with the ignition system. You already made the proper start in that area when you established that you are not getting a reliable spark at the plugs. You probably have access to an induction triggered timing light. I would use that to test each plug wire and the wire from the coil to see exactly what charges are passing through them. Obviously, if there are no current pulses observed in the coil wire, you work back from there. Here is a list of the parts that are involved in the firing of the ignition.
1. Spark plug
2. Plug wires
3. Distributor cap
4. Rotor
5. Coil wire
6. Coil
7. Ignition module
8. Computer
9. Crankshaft position sensor - in the distributor

That's it. Your ignition problem will come down to one of these parts or the wires and connectors that run between them.

If there is no reliable spark coming out of the coil, you should check that you have 12V at the wires going to the plug on the coil. That voltage is provided through the Ignition Module. I would want to use a volt/ohm meter to see what voltages you can read on those two wires with the key in the full on position. It would be best if you could test that without disconnecting the plug. Use the probe of your meter to get to the connectors inside the plug from the opening where the wires enter the plug. If they are taped up remove the tape. It is easy to replace later.

I hope you will keep trying. I think we would all take pleasure in helping you overcome this. But, on the other hand, only you can, or should, decide what is best for you. I'm sure whatever you decide we all wish for you the best.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[slimone]

Hi Guys, Well haven't given up completey yet ,just need to set it aside for a while ,have other projects going on , have a old 78 chevy pick up to drop a 5.7 vortec into , As to experience on festiva -not a lot been a mechanic for 45 years but mostly chevys , drag raced them for 15 years way back when ,but now retired just work on projects opps and build merry-go-rounds for the grand kids and neighbor hood kids , will stay in touch on this site and let you guys know what is happing with my little car, buy the way it is a 93 . Thanks again Slimone

[JohnGunn]

Hey. Kids. Merry-go-rounds. Sounds to me like you've got your priorities straight.

Finally, a poem you may appreciate.

http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-frost.html

Good luck,
John