No Spark?

[TWO-FOUR]

Ok heres my situation i have a 92 festiva F/I GL converted into a 4 spd and it has been giving me problems for awhile with running fine then dieing and not wanting to start for awhile so ive replaced the ignition module and coil and it still does not want to fire.. its been doin it for about 1 1/2 years and i havent had much time at all to work on it so its pretty much just been sitting and now cant get it to fire at all.. Questions- should there be spark at the coil with the ignition in the on position? cause theres not.. also is there anything else other then these 2 things that would not allow it to spark? both main grounds are good i believe.. Thanks

[resuwrecked]

First thing to check is power at the blue wire at the coil plug.

[TWO-FOUR]

I wont be able to check it out till atleast this friday but that will be the 1st thing i check and what next if there is or isnt power at the blue wire? Thanks

[doylerl]

Around here the module alone is as much as a whole new disty. I had this problem a couple weeks ago, and it turned out it was the pick-up coil inside the disty. The module plugs into it. I am not sure how to replace just that, because I just replaced the whole disty with a used one. This fixed the problem for me. Also, have you replaced your rotor and cap? Sounds simple, but I have seen the contacts twist around and get broke off inside the cap. That would be a cheap fix if that was the problem. Also, I know you said you had this problem before, but from sitting, the timing belt may have gotten dried out / cracked and snapped when you tried starting it this time. Easy to check... watch the rotor under the cap to see if it turns when cranking. If not, it is a timing belt issue. let us know what you find out.

[JohnGunn]

I'd like to help, but there's not much to work with in your description.

Here are some things I would like to know.

1) Is it true that your car would at least run before you replaced the coil and ignition module?
2) Were these new or at least known to be working parts? If not drop back to the previous ones.
3) When you say you have no spark at he coil, I assume you mean that while cranking the engine with the starter and holding the coil to distributor wire close to the engine you get no spark. If that is true, then the problem is upstream of the coil, and the distributor cap and rotor will not be the fault.

Here are the active elements upstream of the coil. Coil, ignition module, computer, crankshaft position sensor (in distributor). It is my understanding, please correct me if I'm mistaken, that the only protection for these items is the head fuseable link. But if the starter is working that link is still good.

I would agree with resuwrecked that you would first want to know if you have 12V in the coil primary circuit, at the wires in the plug to the coil, with the key on. I think that power is supplied through the ignition module, if that power is lacking the problem could be a defective ignition module. If you have 12V there then it suggests that the computer isn't getting the information it needs to send a signal to the ignition module to trigger the coil. That would point to the crankshaft position sensor inside the distributor. I don't know if that can be swapped out or not. I doubt it. Most people will replace it by replacing the distributor.

I have not dealt with any of this on my car, so if anyone finds fault with what I have said please help me out.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[scitzz]

X2 on the wiring into the disty. Once, not very long ago, while checking the trans fluid on my manual, my jacket sleeve caught one of the wires into the disty and pulled it out No sparky.....

[TWO-FOUR]

doylerl-no i have not replaced the cap and rotor and the timeing belt is intact. JohnGunn-no it did not run when i replaced them that was the reason for doing so.. prior to replaceing them the car would usually die when i stomped on the gas and some times would re-start but most times id have to let it sit for awhile and go back later and it would fire right up but then it just wouldnt fire at all the way it was acting i figured the coil was going bad and finally went thats why i replaced the coil and module and they were new ones off E-Bay also prior to the new ones i also tryed a module and coil from the yard during the process i did try swapping them back and forth. now both the new ones are on and at the time of putting the new ones on i did not have anyone around to be cranking the engine so i was only able to check for spark with only the ignition in the on position.. i was not sure if the engine had to be cranking to have spark at the coil its self.. but on friday when im able to work on it i will first check that the blue wire has power going into the coil and hope for the best.. im just trying to get as much info prior to friday because where i will be for the weekend i will not have access to a computer. so if im leaving any more needed info out let me know and ill do my best to add it also thanks for the help guys i really appreciate it ive been battleing on trying to get this festiva to run good pretty much sense the night i purchased it lol

[FestYboy]

i would eliminate one possibility by uncovering the dizzy and dust cap and hosing down the insides with carb clean. the reason being is the pickup in the dizzy can get contaminated enough to inturupt the signal to the ign modual via breakdown of the internal oil seal.

[scitzz]

i would eliminate one possibility by uncovering the dizzy and dust cap and hosing down the insides with carb clean. the reason being is the pickup in the dizzy can get contaminated enough to inturupt the signal to the ign modual via breakdown of the internal oil seal.

Not a bad idea.....

His symptoms are bugging me, like having the right word on the tip of the tongue. How often have I wished to get to the car myself, and know I could gigure the problem out in MINUTES if only I was right there!

[JohnGunn]

Thanks for the update. The additional information helps a lot.

When a car doesn't start or even respond to cranking, you don't really know whether the problem is with the ignition system or the fuel delivery system.

You can check the ignition system by having someone in the car turn the key to activate the starter while you hold the wire that goes to the center of the distributor close to a bare metal part of the engine. If you see sparks the ignition is working and the fault is probably in the fuel system.

You can check the fuel delivery system by spraying some carburetor cleaner into the plenum through the hose that comes from the brake vacuum booster, the round thing that the brake master cylinder is attached to. Take that hose off where it attaches to the engine and spray a good deal of cleaner into the hole. Then quickly put the hose back on and try and start the engine. If it fires then the problem is in the fuel system. Take a can of carb cleaner on Friday.

Of the two, the ignition is the one that is most likely to be a fault. So start there.

If you have 12V at the wires into the coil the ignition module would appear to be working. Next in line would be the computer. I don't know how to test the computer so let's check everything else before we begin to suspect it.

The last part involved it delivering spark is the Crankshaft Position Sensor in the distributor. The computer needs signals from it to know when to trigger the ignition module to fire. If the computer is working it will be aware if it is not receiving signals from that sensor. I notice there is an engine trouble code, 02, called "Crankshaft Position (CP) sensor (1990 through 1993)". If that module is failing we should see the "Check Engine" error light come on when trying to start the engine.

Do the following now; don't wait for Friday to do this. Get in the car. Turn the key to the on position, but not far enough to activate the starter. Look at the lights on the instrument cluster, where the speedometer is. Look for a light that is labeled "Check Engine." If you don't see it lit, the light is burned out. You don't need to fix it, but you need to let us know so we can tell you what to do next.

If that light is working, then while watching that light turn the key farther to activate the starter. Does the light go off or stay on? Also, after running the starter for a couple of seconds, release the key and see the condition of Check Engine light. We need to know the results of this test.

More after you're report.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[TWO-FOUR]

JohnGunn the car is about an hour an a half away so i really wont be able to check that light status till friday unfortunetly..

[JohnGunn]

Good. Best not to hurry when doing something you really care about.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[scitzz]

uh?

[TWO-FOUR]

ok so ill be leaving shortly so just wanted to double check on what i should check for.. is it just check for power at the blue wire plugging into the coil and check the status of the check engine light when cranking and then after cranking??

[JohnGunn]

ok so ill be leaving shortly so just wanted to double check on what i should check for.. is it just check for power at the blue wire plugging into the coil and check the status of the check engine light when cranking and then after cranking??

Sorry, I just got to your message so I'm assuming you will not be able to read this until after you get back.

Next time print out the messages so that you will not have to rely on your memory. I mentioned taking a can of carb cleaner to test whether spraying that into the plenum would make it respond.

Also it would be helpful to test for spark at the coil wire held close to bare metal on the engine.

Should have given you my phone number.

Next time.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA