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Ignition Issues - - need help from you guru's

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  • Ignition Issues - - need help from you guru's

    [I got to the end and realized I hadn't put up my car info. I think it's in my signiture but I can't remember. It's an '88LX with a '91L EFI engine swapped in. Let's just pretend it's a '91L] it's long but please read it all, guys

    Hey guys it has been a while since I last posted, been pretty busy with school and work and such. Since I last talked I finished my carb>efi swap. Wasn't too hard, and she's been running exactly like she use to in my red car; like a champ.

    Let me give you the complete story so you know what all I've touched.
    Well, I'm a delivery driver for a local wing restaurant. The other night I delivered to one guy and when I got back to my car it wouldn't start. It turned over and over but would not start. I had to leave it there and came back in the middle of the night to try again, but still nothing, so I pushed it the mile or so home. Did I mention it ran like a champ prior to this happening?!

    Oh, I just remembered, when it didn't start I called my dad and he said that one time he had to unplug and replug-in a few things before it started again. I believe he had tried the disty, coil, and ignition module. But this didnt work for me.

    The next morning I pulled out my Haynes and started the ignition system checklist. The first test is to unplug a spark plug and see if there is spark. I turn the key to check the first plug and miraculously it starts on the other three cylinders. I plug in the fourth plug and she runs perfectly normal. At this point I decide to play with the timing because she's a little hesitant when you first press the pedal and she seems to have intermittant power. I turned the disty clockwise and suddenly she's idling perfectly, no hesitation, and constant power. But then I begin to hear a pinging when I put load on the engine. So then I put the disty back ccw some and we're back to how she ran before. Whatever, I can deal with this I figure.

    I go upstairs, cool off for about an hour, email my boss to tell him everything is cool again.
    Then I decide to go to the local bike shop......and she won't start. Turns over and over and over, no pop. I unplug, replug, check voltages, everything seems good. But I can't get the coil to arc to a ground. So I think maybe it's the coil to dist. wire, being it's still the orginal (the autozone one is always too short). I change it, and still nothing.
    I move on to another step in the book and check the resistance in the pick-up coil (between the middle two prongs) and it's way out of range from what the book calls for. Book says to change the entire disty. Great, $200. Well I wansn't about to call that my problem for that much money.

    This morning I go out there and she starts again. But rough this time. Definitely missing. It's not sporatic, seems to be the same cylinder(s) missing every time. So today she gets a new cap, rotor, plugs, and more wires. Finally a coil to disty plug that reaches comfortably. All these parts from oreilly's.
    Change it all, and she runs exactly the same as this morning, a..perfect miss, if you understand what that means. $60 wasted.
    I only let the car run for about 20 seconds, so I grabbed the exhaust manifold. #1 and #4 are hot, but #2 and #3 are still cool.

    So I'm thinking its between the pick-up coil and the ignition module. I don't have a test light on hand to check that the module is sending a signal to the coil to spark, but I imagine I should get my hands on one to check it.

    Also, I am coming to understand that I can get the pick-up coil (aka stator?) seperate from the disty and install it myself. Anyone know the difficulty on doing so? It would save a lot.
    Joey Richard Jr.

    1991 Ford Festiva L; died but donated all her organs
    1988 Ford Festiva LX; EFI swapped in...actually everything swapped in


    Quality is Job 1. Together, We Can Save Lives. Ford.

  • #2
    It's easy to change.

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    • #3
      I've never personally dealt with the problem you describe. If, when your car refuses to start, it is always true that there is no spark coming from the secondary of the coil, then the problem must be with the coil or parts upstream of it. That would include the following:
      1. The coil.
      2. The ignition module.
      3. The computer.
      4. The crankshaft position sensor, located in the distributor.

      Check for power at the + terminal of the primary of the coil with the ignition switch on.
      Check ignition module with an LED test light at the coil electrical connector.
      I don't know how to check the computer. Assume it's good.
      Since there are a couple of error codes for problems associated with the crankshaft position sensor, I would expect that if it were failing the computer would recognize this and turn on the engine check light. The problem with using this is that when the ignition switch is turned on that light comes on so that you can check for a bad bulb. As I recall that light only goes off when the engine actually starts. So you would not be able to tell whether the computer was turning it on, since it would just remain on and show no change.

      But maybe it is turning the light on, but we can't see it. To test this do the following:
      1. Wait until the engine refuses to start.
      2. Ground the proper connector and read the code. Look up the code. If it relates to the crankshaft position sensor, you will have found the problem.

      The failure pattern you describe suggests to me that of an electronics part which has degraded just enough to be almost exactly at the point of failure. Then it will be very sensitive to the least internal change, be it of temperature or of the balance of electrical charges among its internal components. The most likely devices of this type would be the ignition module and the electronics within the crankshaft position sensor. Since the ignition module is easy to get to I might be tempted to spray it with Brake Kleen when the engine isn't starting to see if that change in temperature would shock it into working. If it does you will know it is the failing part.

      But before doing any of this I would want to go through all the electrical connections that appear in this circuit. That would be the one on the distributor, lets skip the one at the computer. It's pretty well protected inside the car. The connector at the coil, the one at the ignition module, and the one that connects the main relay to the wiring harness. That's the metal can just above the cooling system overflow tank.

      Use contact cleaner from a spray can or Brake Kleen. This stuff will dissolve the adhesive on electrical tape which is often wrapped near these connectors. Wrap a cloth around the tape to protect it. Spray inside both parts of the connection and push them together a couple of times. Then spray them again before plugging them together. Give it some time to dry.

      John Gunn
      Coronado, CA
      Last edited by JohnGunn; 04-24-2010, 09:13 AM.
      John Gunn
      Coronado, CA

      Improving anything
      Improves everything. Copyright 2011 John Gunn

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      • #4
        Take the ignition modle to a parts store which has a tester and will test for free. They exibit intermittent problems when deteriorating. Odd how two cyclinders arent' firing. That can be checked with the spark test using each ingition wire in turn.
        Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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        • #5
          see with older cars they use points i'm gona be looking for an after market one if i do my efi swap
          FORD BUILT TOUGH SINCE 1987-1993 FORD FESTIVA LX

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          • #6
            Free Shipping - PerTronix IgnitorŪ Solid-State Ignition Systems with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Electronic Distributor Conversion Kits at Summit Racing.
            FORD BUILT TOUGH SINCE 1987-1993 FORD FESTIVA LX

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            • #7
              sooo turns out I was part of the problem. I was thinking the disty turned clockwise and I plugged the wires in for such, but I noticed in the book that it turns the other way. so that solved the 2 cylinders not firing. silly me.
              so far she's running well. I even got to play with the timing and get her to run smoother. might even get a few more mpgs.

              I think the problem was in the cap/rotor/wires. As I mentioned, I always seem to get too short of a coil>dist wire from autozone, probably for a carb car with the coil in a slightly different location. Because of that I hadn't changed that wire. Ever. But this time I bought wires from Oreilly's and got the correct length so I finally changed it. Plus the cap and rotor were quite possibly the originals as well, my dad couldn't remember if he'd ever changed them.

              So thanks for the help guys. Now I just have to keep driving her and see if she fails. It's been all good for 2 days now so I think its been solved.
              Joey Richard Jr.

              1991 Ford Festiva L; died but donated all her organs
              1988 Ford Festiva LX; EFI swapped in...actually everything swapped in


              Quality is Job 1. Together, We Can Save Lives. Ford.

              Comment


              • #8
                good to hear that its a ok now just for future reference make sure u write it down so u dont forget
                FORD BUILT TOUGH SINCE 1987-1993 FORD FESTIVA LX

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