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  • Uh oh.......brakes.

    It's kind of ironic that I posted a thread not too long ago about installing an e-brake.
    It's almost even more ironic that a good number of members warned me about brake lines and how I should check them if I install the hand brake myself. Some of you said that your lines popped and you (luckily) rolled through stop signs or red lights without being harmed. Some of you also said how you relied on your e-brake in situations like that, and others said you've never used it.

    Well here is my story (in full)!
    I bought this festy on Feb. 20th from a fellow who's owned many festiva's and was also mechanically saavy with automobiles (as his profession required him to build utility vehicles).
    I distinctly remember the conversation we had in his driveway, talking about the car and how much work he put into it. I remember him telling me how he liked to be able to STOP in his cars (partly because he was a big man). He then rolled along assuring me that he hadn't in the past, and would never (in the present) sell anyone any automobile that was in unsafe, or would poop out on them "2 weeks later" or "driving home" as he said.
    From that conversation I remember he said he'd replaced the rotors, brake pads, and I THOUGHT he said brake lines, though I can't be positive.

    What comes next could very well be my imagination, but again I am not sure.
    That very day driving back from his house in WI, I recall looking down at the dash and seeing the brake light on. I couldn't remember if it was on before (because I was so stressed that I'd be pulled over for not having plates AND because I hadn't driven stick in a while) but I figured it was because my e-brake was not installed at the time. With that said, the brakes worked fine....perfectly as a matter of fact (which gave me confidence, reaffirming that the man I bought it from replaced everything). One thing I DID notice, but shrugged it off, was that the brake pedal seemed very tight. It could be pressed down about an inch (the brakes would engage) and then it stopped, as if something was obstructing it from being pushed down further. Again, i disregarded this too (not knowing much about cars) and figuring that it was just because the brakes were recently replaced and were just tight.

    From that day (Feb.20th) until the day I got my dear old Festy registered two days ago, I had been taking him out for a spin nightly (illegally) to keep the battery charged and the car in shape (but mostly because I was obsessed). Don't worry everybody... I live in a quiet neighborhood and merely took it around the block a few times. But even then.. for the past two weeks, everything was in order and seemed fine.


    *AND NOW BACK TO THE PRESENT*
    For whatever reason my conscience was nagging me late last night about my brakes failing, sending images of me flying through intersections and crashing . I am never that pessimistic and am not superstitious, but even more so...nothing EVER keeps me from sleeping except positive excitement.
    So morning comes around (today) and of course I wake up late for work, the FIRST day I'm supposed to drive my car on the the road. My commute is only 3 miles (15 minutes worth of lights and stop signs), yet I had only ten minutes, so I was in a semi-frenzy.

    Everything powered up and functioned fine as I turned onto the main road. Then I forgot I needed to by something from 7/11 so I pulled a U-ey (tapped the far curb as I turned about and pulled into the lot. Still everything was fine.
    Next, I went to park and stalled (my fault for being in an edgy rush)...the car jolted, wheeled hit the curb again, and the front bumper hit the icy snowbank at the head of the parking spot. It was a very light tap, and again nothing I thought twice of as it seemed so insignificant.
    But after I pulled out of the lot, got back on the road and hit my first light, I knew something was amiss.
    I gently applied pressure to the brake pedal as usual, expecting to slow, but I was wrong. There was zero resistance in the pedal, and it scared the crap out of me. I pushed further down (all the way to the floor) and the car barely showed any signs of slowing, but after quite some distance it eventually did and stopped. Luckily I am a safe driver and not only give people ahead of me a wide berth, but I also start braking way before I have to and slow down to safely stop over a longer distance than "the average" driver.

    Despite all this happening I went to work and drove extra carefully and very slowly, telling myself that i would check on this problem again on my lunch break. I did, and all was the same, if not worse than before. I also noticed a bit of leakage on the pavement under the front right side of the car. It looked like gasoline but what do I know, and it wasn't much whatever it was. It may not even be related to this issue but I like to take note of as much as I can.
    Don't ask if I looked at anything in detail, because I don't know anything about cars or where to look even if I had to. That's partly why I got this car...so that I could learn. Anyway, I deemed the car drivable (at least back home) until I could look at it or get it looked at and fixed.

    Eventually my shift was over, I walked outside to the car, and of course it's pouring with rain. I used all kinds of colorful words in my head and out loud as I dreaded the drive back.

    Long story short, I had to rely a lot on downshifting to slow enough for the brakes to be "strong" enough to bring the vehicle to a stop. Even so, I rolled into more than one intersection and could have caused a couple accidents if I didn't take back roads. I was wary, and started to apply my useless brakes several hundred feet before I typically do ( okay, at least 100ft), and still I could not stop. Like I said I was driving slow, at least 10 mph below the limit in the pouring rain. There was no skidding involved...just braking issues.

    Now after this whole useless type-out, this is probably what you want to know.
    -pedal has zero resistance, and only SLIGHTLY engages after pedal is touching the floor
    -brake like is on
    -The brakes DO work, but one could hardly tell.
    -I have no e-brake
    -I bumped two curbs and a snowbank lightly(doubtful that did anything...)
    -the front right engine is leaking something that looks (and kind of smells) like gasoline


    Just one question in all of this...
    Would it be possible to blow something if I pressed the pedal too vigorously (hard&fast)? I don't remember doing this, but yet again I was very flustered and in a rush to get to work on time, so anything could have happened. I don't think I did anything differently than I normally do, but who knows. It was a hectic morning.

    If any of you managed to read through all of this without wanting to kill me..
    what thoughts have you?
    what do you think I should do?

    Just as a side note I am taking a road trip on sunday to NM. I wish it was with the festy, but no . So whatever I have to get fixed, or have to fix myself I wont be able to do for 2 weeks.

    Thanks for bearing with me my friends.

    This is both a solemn and consolatory moment.
    The Hobbitmobile is not drivable for one, but at least we are both safe and unharmed.

    Thanks again!

    0z0ne
    1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

    Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

  • #2
    Well I am far from qualified to help you but my professional opinion, you have brake issues. haha but seriously. Sounds like you may have blown out your brake lines... I suppose a way to check is to refill your brake fluid reservoir (pop the hood, cylinder shaped says dot 3 or something on it) then have someone pump the brakes and see if any fluid is leaking. I've never done it but seems like that woudl show you if you have a leak in the brake lines. Or it could be a weeping wheel cylinder, which is a pretty common problem to have. But the fact you had leaking fluid up front sounds like that's where the issue is. But you say it smells like gas? That doesn't sound like a normal location for a gas leak.

    Unfortunately I wouldn't say brake lines are a good starter project :p but maybe someone near you could help and teach you! If that's what needs to be done.

    Glad you got home alright though! And stop hitting things! hahaha
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nancy- 1.8L BP, aspire swap, g-trans
    The Adventures of Nancy! Build Thread
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    My Musica! Click me!

    Comment


    • #3
      Lol Charlie, you're the man! I don't hit things on purpose you know, just a mix between getting acclimated to this amazing vehicle and being in a super rush :/ heh.

      As far as that leak goes:
      The pavement was wet, and you know how when gasoline touches wet asphalt it looks kind of rainbow-y? That's what it looked like. Yet it wasn't a lot, nor was it a little. Just a smallish puddle of watery something with a nice runny trail of it running down hill.
      The gasoline smell is probably irrelevant...I was just trying to take in as many details as possible in my state of confusion. It was likely someone car or.. I don't know. I should probably edit that smelling gasoline part out...hah.

      Anyway, we'll see what comes of this, eh?

      thanks bud!
      1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

      Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

      Comment


      • #4
        if you stated right front, then you need to look at the hard line that goes through the fender and UNDER the line where it touches the plastic grommet.
        Trees aren't kind to me...

        currently: 2 88Ls (Scrappy and Jersey), 88LX, 90L(Pepe), 91L, 91GL (Skippy) 93 GL Sport (the Mighty Favakk), 94 (Bruce) & 95 Aspire SEs, 97 Aspire (The Joker),
        94 Justy 4WD, 87 Fiero GT, plus 2 parts cars. That's my fleet.

        Comment


        • #5
          lol, didn't read much other than scrolling the last 1/4...

          I would bleed the brakes. go to harborfreight for 3 bucks or autozone/advance for 10-15 you can get a one man bleeder kit. it's got a magnet, just put it up above in the wheel well and fill up the res and pump til the new fluid you are putting through the line becomes clean. HINT*I like to put it in view of the mirror for the rears and idk what I did for the fronts. lol.

          if they still suck after that you might want to check the wheel cylinders in the rear (check the back of the backing plates and see if they're dripping wet in fluid or dry) AND make sure you check all of the lines, fittings, bleeder fittings, etc.

          if nothing is leaking...which sounds like something is up with the lines or leaking somewhere if you have no pressure in the pedal, but I'd then check the master and next step would be replace it with an aspire master
          Walth

          Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
          http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

          Comment


          • #6
            FestYboy, I apologize for my lack of mechanical knowledge, but I don't really read what you wrote as English . Could you make it a little clearer?

            And Walt, I think I may just have to follow your advice because guess what..?

            I JUST CHECKED THE BRAKE FLUID RESERVOIR AND IT'S BONE DRY.

            How could this have happened?
            I mean how could the brakes be working fine one minute and then completely give out another? Can the brakes function normally with close to no brake fluid? I don't see how it all could have leaked out in a flash like that.

            Most importantly.. will this be an expensive fix?



            Thank you for caring brothers
            1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

            Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

            Comment


            • #7
              any amount of air in the line will mess you up QUICK! so if there is a leak in one of the wheel cylinders or if the front right line, like arty said, check the gromet area in the wall of the engine bay where those two lines connect...feel the (edit>> all of the soft lines - one per wheel area) line and see if theres cracking? idk it could be anywhere in that whole system. but if it's leaking and it gets too low and you drive it you could really kick some buckets around.

              I'd fill up the res and look for more puddles. move the car to a dry spot or put down some big pieces of cardboard and park on them and see if they get wet. then you'll know where to look.
              Walth

              Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
              http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

              Comment


              • #8
                I am going to buy some DOT 3 now, but I was just thinking...
                Do you think I could have cracked a line or something when I pulled that u-ey and went up over the curb?

                Also...do i need to have the brakes bled before I can add fluid to the empty reservoir...or?
                1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

                Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

                Comment


                • #9
                  (edit>> if it's still dry now you could probably buy some blue shop towels that are mostly lint free and carefully wipe out the bottom just don't brake anything) then, I would fill it up literally almost full and leave the cap off while you are messing with it. you don't want to leave it open over night or anything as dust/dirt can get in. If it's dry there's already probably air in the line. you will just drain the lines if you bleed them first. lol. won't do you any good. I'd get two bottles of the DOT3&4 should only be about 3-4 bucks a bottle? and after the fluid has made it's way through the lines and is cleaning out old gunk I wouldn't reuse it. hence getting two bottles is what I would do (and what I do with swaps, etc) plus you'll have some extra to keep in the car cuz you'll want to be checking that sucker every few miles to see if it's changing!!

                  it is very possible...check under the drivers side the big lines are fuel and the small ones are brake. (within reason I'm shooting from the hip)
                  Last edited by walth; 03-04-2011, 11:19 PM.
                  Walth

                  Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                  http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Alright for whatever reason I am a bit confuzzled by your reply. I think I get it, but..

                    I have two bottles of DOT 3 (each was 2.99 btw haha)
                    -I should the reservoir dry (carefully and with proper cloth)
                    -then fill it
                    Now, you want me to let it sit for a while? with the cap...ON because I will be inside (it's also raining if that matters)
                    And are you supposing that all of it will leak out by morning or some of it? Also, what do you mean by re-using the fluid? I suppose you mean, don't rely on the first batch I put in, and drive around with it (is that why I have a second bottle?)?

                    I don't want to do anything until i'm positive about what I am doing ha ha.

                    If you're still awake, try and reply

                    thanks!
                    1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

                    Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I wouldn't put any in until you have some time to mess with it. maybe wait til it's done raining. lol

                      if it's bone dry, (when you start working on it) I'd wipe out some of the grit in there. you'll see what I'm saying when you start pouring fluid into the res!! clouds of dirt flying around and it takes forever to get rid of it.

                      DOT3 is fine. it isn't required to have anything more I would think. I just like getting the 3 & 4 because it's sort of a good safe range fluid. doesn't matter. already bought. and I'm glad it's cheap (and so are you) cuz you may go through a good bit before you find the leak/issue.

                      as far as the cap goes, when you are working on it, it's not a big deal (IMO) to leave the cap off for the little bit you are there. But i don't recommend leaving it off if you were to put everything up, clean up, and close the hood and think nothing will get in there and break down your fluid.

                      simple steps, nothing too hard, you'll do fine. maybe grab some cheap nitrile gloves to keep a bit clean as you start messing with filthy nasty years of grease and like I said some rolls of blue paper towels haha.

                      I am going to bed now tho. read over everything again and just familiarize yourself with general concepts of what you need to do and look for. nothing has to be perfectly like I've described it but just a good break down of what I've done in the past and good luck and keep us posted if you get to it before your trip
                      Walth

                      Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                      http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Alright Walt, will do!
                        Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

                        Though I don't gather exactly what to make of your cheap comment... ha

                        But many thanks all the same!

                        Gn
                        1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

                        Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          sorry...*eh-hem*... "frugal" lol
                          Walth

                          Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                          http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mmm, alrighty then.
                            Just trying to make sense of things and begin the journey of Festy maintenance, despite my lack of background. But all the same, thanks for being there bud.
                            1991 Festiva L "The HobbitMobile" or "The Hobbit" :cam:

                            Do you not understand? TO LOSE IS TO DIE!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you didn't understand it, the "brake fluid reservoir" is the top part of your master cylinder. It definitely sounds like that leak would be your brake fluid. As your brake lines and hoses age, they get weak, and eventually can go at any time (not that that's necessarily your problem). Like you said, they went from fine to weak. You're lucky you had any stopping power whatsoever. You don't have any friends in the know to be able to give you a hand eh? It would make it much simpler and quicker for you. If you could even get someone to pump the brakes for you it'd do a world of good. What I would do is fill up the reservoir and then get down to eye the area that had been leaking, while getting a buddy to pump the brakes. It should be easier to identify where it's coming from (if it is leaking out a line) that way. Be sure to keep that reservoir topped up throughout it all. If it is indeed coming from there you should be able to find it without first bleeding the brake system, which you'll need to do after fixing it anyways. But anyways, that's just what I say, and I'm not an expert by any means.

                              Oh, and another thing, you were supposed to learn from our mistakes!!! That's why we gave advice! You should not have drove it back home! If something isn't working quite right with your brakes, don't drive any more until it is fixed! Especially without an e-brake!

                              But anyhow, I hope you get it all figured out. Hope I can be some help.

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