I think my oil pump is going out...

[Safety Guy]

B6 in Aqua was running fine. Went to Walgreen's a few blocks away on an errand.

Left the store and pulled out of the lot, heard more engine noise than usual, like valves or lifters, etc. Stopped at light and saw "OIL" light come on. Turned left, pulled into gas station and turned it off.

Got oil at proper level on dipstick. No leakage visible anywhere.

Got back in car and went short distance to A-Zone. Everything seemed fine until I stopped in parking space, then "OIL" came back on.

Went inside and described my problem to one of the guys. He said what I was thinking:

My oil pump is probably going out.

When I refreshed my B6, I took off the oil pickup tube and I'm sure I torqued it to specs when reinstalling it. However, I left the oil pump alone. My B6 probably has around 95 to 100K on it.

Is there anything else I can check to make sure before I begin "installing new oil pump" procedures? Has anyone done their B3 or B6 OP while on the car?

I figure I'll be taking off all timing gear, crank pulley, etc. and then probably the water pump and oil pan.

Or will I be able to leave pan in place and remove and put in new OP without removing the oil pan?

I guess I'm driving Lux to work for now.

Karl

[TominMO]

If you are using 0W30 or 5W30, try using thicker oil, like 10W30 or 10W40. The pump may be able to move it better. Could be a long-term fix or at least buy you some time.

Don't see why you couldn't do the job with the motor in the car. Shouldn't have to touch the WP, or even drain the coolant.

[Safety Guy]

B6 and B3 oil pumps appear to be the same part. My engine is a 1994, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Thanks for the info, Tom.

I'll be driving Luxstiva to work until I get Aqua fixed. I need to get her fixed by the end of the month!!

Next engine I do will get a new oil pump and all the trimmings!

Any other thoughts are welcome, especially if you've done this on a Festiva.

Karl

[TominMO]

Another thought....with that low mileage, maybe it's not the pump at all, maybe it's the sensor that goes to the oil idiot light.

I notice that the light comes on when you are idling, making me think it isn't that big a deal anyway. Are your revs low at idle? Or maybe a loose accessory belt, which slips a little at idle, causing the pump to not turn as much as it needs to?

[crazyrog17]

The oil pump is run directly off of the crankshaft

[Safety Guy]

Tom, the noise I heard was very noticeable and I heard it before I saw the light. The light just confirmed what I was hearing wrong. The noise went away when the light went out.

Unless it could be blocked passages or something, I'd think it's the oil pump, unless there is another explanation. I'll be ordering an oil pump in the morning, so if there is a test or something I could do, let me know.

Thanks guys.

Karl

[JoDan]

Get an oil pressure gauge and screw it in where the sending unit is on the back of the motor to be for sure that you have low oil pressure. Those lights don't mean anything since those sending units always go bad. Also did you prime the oil pump somehow when assembling?

[TominMO]

The oil pump is run directly off of the crankshaft

Oh, OK; that eliminates the belt slippage as an issue. But I still doubt it's the pump, with that low mileage.

For possible blocked passages, maybe an oil change with flush to clean them out?

[yelo festiva]

oil filter

Make sure the oil filter is not clogged. They do have a bypass in them but at low idle will not give good pressure. Just something to check. Best bet is to hook up a gauge as mentioned to see actual reading.

[Safety Guy]

I suppose I'll get the oil pressure guage and take the sender out to hook it up and test it, to eliminate other things.

As far as "priming" is concerned, I've run this engine for several months now and on a long trip (over 1000 miles). No problems until now.

If I had put in say, an extra 1/2 quart of oil at first, might that have damaged the oil pump? Oil is at correct level and has been for months now.

I could put on a new oil filter too and see what happens.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Autozone didn't have the pressure testing equipment.

I talked to a couple of them and decided to try an oil change. It's probably been around 3000 miles since my last one, and maybe some gunk from the engine's "past" has come loose and blocked something.

I'll put in the rest of a can of Seafoam and run my engine till it warms up, then change the oil and put in a new filter. I'm switching to 10W-30 instead of 5W-30 this time to see what happens before I go and do something expensive and drastic.

Karl

[crazyrog17]

I'd also like to see what a new filter would do. Especially if this engine is from unknown origin/care, it might have taken just a thousand miles to gunk up the filter.

This makes me want to change my oil filter

[Safety Guy]

Well, I'll let you know soon. She's drained and a new filter (the smaller 323 variety) is in place.

FYI, I think I had been using a synthetic blend of 5W-30 and I was running a Festiva oil filter, which is around 50% larger. My trip was at least 1400 miles and it's been a few months so I guess I'm due for an oil change. It did look yucky.

I put in about a fourth a can of Seafoam and started her up. Oil light was on immediately and the engine was noisy. I didn't run her long like that. Less than two minutes. Then I pushed her to the ramps and started her up just to get her on the ramps.

We'll see if this works.

Back soon.

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Finished oil change of 10W-30. Pushed her off the ramps, topped off and started her up.

Oil light still on immediately. I ran her for about a minute, sounding unlubricated and the light stayed on. I turned her off since nothing seemed to be getting any better. I don't think I want to try any oil pressure testing like this either. The less the engine runs the better. I just hope nothing bad has happened to it so far.

Looks like it may indeed be the oil pump.

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Here's a tip on "priming an oil pump" that is already in the car:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060625132426AA4dMfn

From the answer:

"Vulcan has the easiest way to do this. If you can, fill the oil filter and install, remove all the spark plugs and remove the coil wire and ground it (or disconnect the coil pack if the engine has distributor-less ignition). Also, if the vehicle is fuel injected, remove the fuel pump relay to prevent flooding. Crank the engine for 30 seconds, then wait 5 minutes for the starter to cool off. Repeat this procedure until the oil light goes out or the gauge rises (whichever you have). If you didn't prime the pump, this will take a while. Don't be impatient waiting for the starter to cool between cranking sessions, or you'll be replacing the starter also! Once you have oil pressure, install the spark plugs, enable the fuel and ignition systems and start it up!"

Hmmm. Might this be the problem? I'd never heard of it before. Here is a VW forum thread on it:

http://www.vwforum.com/forums/f14/oil-pump-wont-prime-no-oil-pressure-after-changing-oil-15405/

He let his oil drain for 48 hours!

Here is a Mazda "B" engine oil pump assembly:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t86/m2cupcar/FE3%20engine%20swap/preluber1a.jpg

This guy (FE3tMX5) claims B engines have this feature. Here's the thread:

http://www.mx5atlanta.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1773.html

If our oil pumps have this port, maybe I can use it before tearing the whole oil pan, etc. apart?



How common is it for an oil pump that has been working fine to need "priming?"

Karl