Found Aqua's oil pickup problem! Question...

[Safety Guy]

I was about to remove the oil pickup tube and reached for my 10mm socket and wrench.

Didn't need it! Both bolts were LOOSE!

Here's two pics to compare. The first one I'm pushing the pickup gasket surfaces together, like they should be:



In this pic I let go:



Depending on picture resolution, you should be able to see the small gap. It was enough to prevent suction from the sump, where the oil was.

This HAS to be the problem, and explains the slow progress of the "disease" as the seal loosened and I lost all suction and thus, oil pickup.

Here are my thoughts:

I'll take the pickup off, clean it up along with the mounting holes, add mild thread locker to the two 10mm bolts, and this time, MAKE SURE I TORQUE IT RIGHT!

I could'a sworn I torqued it properly the first time, but maybe not. Maybe that was the first time, before I opened the pan up to get the seal out I had left inside.

Sound good? I don't think I need to install the new oil pump, nice as it looks. I didn't break the old one's seal yet.

Reinstall pickup tube, clean pan gasket surfaces, and reinstall oil pan.

If anyone knows different, lemme know. I'll be cleaning stuff up.

Thanks,

Karl

[91mcnasty]

make sure you get a new pan gasket(if yours is in rough shape) because you dont wanna have too pull it again!!!!

[Safety Guy]

Oh yeah, I got a new gasket kit (B6 of course, two half-moon rubber pieces with gasket maker goop) and extra seals, etc. in case I needed them. And I knew I'd need a new gasket kit.

Now for those of you who may one day do this, some more pics:

From the crank nose side:


Looking at the left side by the transaxle:


Looking at the crank nose side:


Here's the room you'd have to work with if you were replacing oil pump:

(That red thing is my socket twirler on the top left OP bolt.)

One more bottom pic from the front of the car:


Also, BTW, my downpipe is loosened, but obviously not off. Finally, note the end of the dipstick in some of the pics!

Take my shiny new oil pump back (Melling) or keep it for the future?

Thanks,

Karl

[nitrofarm]

Glad you got er all fingered out Karl !

[TominMO]

Yeah, that makes sense that that's the problem, and you seem to have the solution too.

[Safety Guy]

I was really lucky that on my 1400+ mile trip to the south (I need to post my pics and stats, etc.) last month I had absolutely no problems whatsoever. After being back about a week or so, I then had my LF brake begin sticking, so I did all new front brakes. Then this happened a week later!

I hope this is it for major problems for a while. I just want to enjoy Aqua without having to do heavy maintenance every couple weeks!

I'll keep the oil pump. Ya never know...

Karl

[blkfordsedan]

Glad you found it! I knew there was a mechanical issue. Was there any filings or "glitter" in the oil? You may want to cut the oil filter apart & inspect it. If it was me, I would pull a rod cap off to inspect the crank journal and bearings. You don't need to, and I'm not recommending you do it, but I would just because I'm obsessed that way! You didn't run it very much or very hard, so I think you should be just fine. I would, however, recommend changing the oil filter. For future reference, most times if the oil pump is sucking air (for whatever reason) you can pull the valve cover off, start it up and literally see bubbles in the oil being supplied to the valvetrain. Aren't you glad you dug into it now? Nothing better than the feeling you get from finding the problem & fixing it yourself!

[zoe60]

Glad you got it figured out. I can only imagine how I would feel knowing my poor old engine wasn't getting oil. Kind of cool seeing in there. I've never removed my oil pan.

[lessersivad]

Just make sure to degrease/de-oil the threads. I would use brake clean to flush anything out of the threads a few times, let dry, the use blue loctite.

Nice to see you found the porblem.

[JohnGunn]

Karl, thanks for taking the time to share with us the phenomenal progress you are making.

I'm wondering if my Aspire's oil delivery problem may be due to air leaking into the system through a poorly sealing oil input tube gasket.

Since you know what things look like in there, do you think it would be possible to test whether that gasket was leaking by adding enough oil to bring the level in the sump above that gasket. Can you guess, either from memory or from your pictures, what level on the dipstick would correspond to the level of that gasket?

It would be so much easier to prepare for dropping the oil pan if you knew in advance exactly what parts and tools you will need to correct the problem.

[crazyrog17]

That'd be way too much oil, would hit the bottom of the crankshaft and be whipped up into foam. It would starve the engine of oil.

[nitrofarm]

Karl, thanks for taking the time to share with us the phenomenal progress you are making.

I'm wondering if my Aspire's oil delivery problem may be due to air leaking into the system through a poorly sealing oil input tube gasket.

Since you know what things look like in there, do you think it would be possible to test whether that gasket was leaking by adding enough oil to bring the level in the sump above that gasket. Can you guess, either from memory or from your pictures, what level on the dipstick would correspond to the level of that gasket?

It would be so much easier to prepare for dropping the oil pan if you knew in advance exactly what parts and tools you will need to correct the problem.

John what happened to you putting on a gauge? I thought you had that nailed?

[FeistyFesti]

Looks like you removed your cross member to get to the pan, is this a necessary step? My oil pan gasket is leaking a little to, albeit on a BP.

[BigElCat]

SafetyGuy...The pictures are awesome! I like the daredevil shots, with the oil drip forming straight above the camera lens...

[JohnGunn]

John what happened to you putting on a gauge? I thought you had that nailed?

If this were an active thread, I probably wouldn't have interrupted it with my own problem, but since my problem may be related I thought it OK. If anyone objects I apologize and will start my own thread.

I too thought I had my problem nailed, and identified as a build up of oil in the head due to blocked drain holes. Impatient with the pace of progress using Seafoam, last Friday I removed the valve cover and found all four holes open, with no oil pooled over them. In addition, the stagnant oil that was pooled in declivities without drain holes seemed to have been there for years - had the smell of very old, perhaps burned oil. For that ancient oil to still be there tells me that my analysis, based on slow draindown times, was incorrect.

In searching for another theory I came across this fine thread and saw in the pickup tube connection a point at which failure might explain what I am seeing in my '94 Aspire. Here's why.

When I add three quarts of new oil during an oil change with the idea for topping it up from that amount, the engine clatters like crazy at fast idle. I've seen this twice. With those three quarts the level on the dipstick reads about midway between low and full. That should be enough oil to cover the bottom of the oil intake at the bottom of the pickup tube, but it wasn't. In both cases I had to add another 15 to 20 ounces of oil for the clatter at fast idle to stop.

This makes me wonder what could cause this behavior. Something happened when I added those 15 to 20 ounces of oil that suddenly, dramatically affected the flow of oil to the valves. Any speculation would be helpful to me at this point.

If there is no oil build up in the head, could oil be held some way in the pan inside and above the oil pan or could a leak in the input tube connection explain this behavior?

Since Karl, in this thread discusses a problem related to this area of the engine, and shows great pictures of the parts involved, I thought it a good place to ask my question.