Need Help Understanding Source of Engine Noise

[FB71]

oil pressure is lower than average, but not unacceptable. It should be roughly 10psi per 1000RPM at 195F engine temp. Oil warning indicators turn off at 5psi. The sudden drop in pressure tells me the regulator valve was stuck. The small amount of oil and Seafoam in the cylinders won't hurt the cat. Constant oil consumption will foul a cat.

John, from your descriptions, I would highly doubt that the lubrication system has any association with the lack of performance. What I would suggest, especially with history of cam-speed upper end noises, is to pull the valve cover and inspect the rocker arm rollers and cam lobes for wear and free rotation. If the inside of the engine was questionably sludged, its very easy to cause cam damage. Wiped out cam lobes will significantly reduce engine power.

[JohnGunn]

oil pressure is lower than average, but not unacceptable. It should be roughly 10psi per 1000RPM at 195F engine temp. Oil warning indicators turn off at 5psi. The sudden drop in pressure tells me the regulator valve was stuck. The small amount of oil and Seafoam in the cylinders won't hurt the cat. Constant oil consumption will foul a cat.

John, from your descriptions, I would highly doubt that the lubrication system has any association with the lack of performance. What I would suggest, especially with history of cam-speed upper end noises, is to pull the valve cover and inspect the rocker arm rollers and cam lobes for wear and free rotation. If the inside of the engine was questionably sludged, its very easy to cause cam damage. Wiped out cam lobes will significantly reduce engine power.

Thanks for you time, Jim. Your advice is very valuable to me.

I want to first say that I'm not sure I actually have a power problem. This Aspire is the only one I have ever driven. I can say that it has less pep than my 90 Festiva when I let it go at around 180,000 miles. But I also know that it weighs about 400 pounds more than my Festiva. Is it possible from that information for you to speculate about the difference between the Festiva and the Aspire in terms of the ability to give a surge of power when accelerating from a pretty high rpm in 3rd and 4th gears. I felt that in my Festiva. With the Aspire the engine immediately shows sign of speeding up but not to the extent that my body feels it. If it had an accelerator pump I would suspect it was not working. Of course in 1st and 2nd gears there is a palpable surge.

I tried using Seafoam in the cylinders because in my research I had heard that a neglected engine often shows signs of that neglect in rings that have become stuck in their groves and no longer able to spring out into contact with the cylinder walls. I had no other signs of that being a problem: absolutely no oil use, blow-by, smoking, or signs of oil on plugs.

One last thing I wish you would clear up for me. When you say, "The sudden drop in pressure tells me the regulator valve was stuck," am I to draw from that the oil relief valve should react in a more gradual manner. According to the engine specifications in my Ford Service Manual: "Oil pressure (Hot @ 3000 rpm) - 50-64 psi". Correct me if I'm wrong but I somewhere got the understanding that that spec was describing the range at which the relief valve would stabilize oil pressure and that it would not go any higher than that. Could you describe what I should be seeing when I accelerate up to 3000 rpm and above? Would it be helpful if I posted a short video of what I am seeing. By the way, the behavior I described is consistent across two different brands of oil filter.

[FestYboy]

^ yes the pressure regulator should stabilize the oil pressure smoothly (it's a volume control valve that is actuated by pump pressure on a piston and spring)

[festivaWES]

thrust bearings, rods/main journals....starved for oil...Replace motor.

[festivaWES]

contaminated...

[JohnGunn]

^ yes the pressure regulator should stabilize the oil pressure smoothly (it's a volume control valve that is actuated by pump pressure on a piston and spring)

Thanks for this info, FestYboy. I'll closely monitor this behavior to see what effect, if any, the engine cleaning I am doing will have.

[iceracerdude]

The oil pick-up tube has a gasket on it, if that gasket fails, you'd lose some suction from the pan. Just saying.

[anomoly40]

Sounds like its time for a BP swap!

[Bert]

I hate having to discover an engine of mine was badly neglected by a former owner. Most recent Festy (a 93EFI) had 215k on the clock, a well documented history (all the garage bills) and senior citizen first owners. That engine is clean as a whistle inside and for a lark (it was very cold in Ontario in January) I even ran 5W20 synthetic in it. Motor didn't seem to mind the stuff, mileage was spectacular (once the weather warmed up and the snow tires came off) and it didn't even use 1/2 litre before it was changed at 10k. My other cars all seem to use 1/2 litre roughly every 1000k and I've never dared using real thin oil in them.
Mr Gunn, if your engine is so thoroughly gummed up with sludge that oil doesn't circulate well anymore there will have been a lot of wear and tear in the meantime and there will be metal filings etc in suspension all over the place. If all that stuff suddenly comes loose thanks to various solvents I do not forecast 'sunshine' things ahead. As everyone else has been suggesting now may be opportune to start seeking out some tame, or wild, version of a B6. Pre-Festy club, when I bought upper end gaskets for a B3 5 years ago the cost was outrageous (ie twice the price of a decent wrecking yard-complete B6).
Just my thoughts on this. When I was much younger I put a "0-maintained former taxi engine" in a truck one time and filled it with detergent (ordinary) oil. Everything let go (even the camshaft lobes wore off) within a few days. Changed my way of thinking overnight.

[JohnGunn]

I hate having to discover an engine of mine was badly neglected by a former owner. Most recent Festy (a 93EFI) had 215k on the clock, a well documented history (all the garage bills) and senior citizen first owners. That engine is clean as a whistle inside and for a lark (it was very cold in Ontario in January) I even ran 5W20 synthetic in it. Motor didn't seem to mind the stuff, mileage was spectacular (once the weather warmed up and the snow tires came off) and it didn't even use 1/2 litre before it was changed at 10k. My other cars all seem to use 1/2 litre roughly every 1000k and I've never dared using real thin oil in them.
Mr Gunn, if your engine is so thoroughly gummed up with sludge that oil doesn't circulate well anymore there will have been a lot of wear and tear in the meantime and there will be metal filings etc in suspension all over the place. If all that stuff suddenly comes loose thanks to various solvents I do not forecast 'sunshine' things ahead. As everyone else has been suggesting now may be opportune to start seeking out some tame, or wild, version of a B6. Pre-Festy club, when I bought upper end gaskets for a B3 5 years ago the cost was outrageous (ie twice the price of a decent wrecking yard-complete B6).
Just my thoughts on this. When I was much younger I put a "0-maintained former taxi engine" in a truck one time and filled it with detergent (ordinary) oil. Everything let go (even the camshaft lobes wore off) within a few days. Changed my way of thinking overnight.

Thanks for your long post, Bert. I've had Seafoam in the engine for about a week now and nothing bad has happen. In fact, I was a little disappointed that the oil hasn't got much darker at all.

After careful consideration I've chosen to take this as step one. I have several conditions to monitor for indications the treatment is working or not. The latest is a sticking oil pump relief valve, along with general oil pressure, color of oil, engine noise, and oil drain down time.

I'll worry about what to do if this doesn't work only if it fails to show some improvement in these areas. But, I should warn you, I'm incredibly patient. I figure it took 16 years of neglect to arrive at this state. So I should be willing to wait 16 weeks for things to turn around. In the mean time, all things considered, it's running pretty well.

[econoaddict]

when I bought upper end gaskets for a B3 5 years ago the cost was outrageous (ie twice the price of a decent wrecking yard-complete B6).

I will second everything Bert said about the sludge coming loose being a huge issue.

Not sure where you are getting the gaskets but I have done 3 B3's top ends so far and have never paid over $90 (carquest) for the complete head set.
Got a complete gasket set off Ebay for $50 shipped.

[Bert]

Thanks for the tip on gaskets. They were totally unobtainable in short order back when I was looking in 05 and whole set (just to replace the blown crankshaft seal and also have a valve job done) was $700. Boy did I feel I was being held for ransom but it was -30 outside, it was at a local garage and I had to have a functional car in short order.

[JohnGunn]

Just became aware that my Aspire may have what is called an harmonic damper built into the crankshaft pulley. From the little research I have done it is there to prevent harmonic vibrations which are created when the pistons fire and turn the crankshaft into a giant torsional spring. The damper is designed and tuned to the engine so that the potential harmonic amplification of those forces will not be allowed to damage the engine.

From the very beginning I have described the noise my engine is making as a vibration which finds amplification at around 1200 rpm and then suddenly disappears. I don't know much about the history of my car, but I do know that the timing belt was changed and that that would entail removal of the pulley with the damper. I know it seems unlikely, but could a shop have accidentally switched pulleys and not only eliminated the damper effect but perhaps put on one that served to make it worse?

I hope I'm wrong in thinking that each pulley has a harmonic damper that is specifically tuned for the unique characteristics of that particular engine. For if that is the case how can one ever replace one that is lost or broken?

The thought that my noise is related to a failed damper rather than a compromised lubrication system puts into question the approach I am currently taking with Seafoam. What I might need is to stop the harmonic vibrations rather than try to cushion their effect with better oil pressure.

This is what I'm thinking at the moment. Put some Mobil 1 0W40 oil in to see if the added viscosity will dampen the vibration and stop the damage. Then go to every junk yard and build a collection of crankshaft pulleys that I will go through installing on my engine until I find one that reduces the vibrations to a minimum.

I hope some of you who have commented on this thread in the past will offer up you opinions on this matter. Particularly important would be comments of engine rebuilders who have had to deal with pulleys which were not the one that was tuned at the factory for the engine they are working on. Is this a common problem which could turn the wrong harmonic damper into a time bomb?

Also, would 0W40 Mobil 1 be a good choice to test the effect of a higher viscosity oil as a help in dampening harmonic lateral vibration of the crankshaft? I've read somewhere that this oil is not just for worn engines and that there are some new models, VWs as I recall, which specify its use.

One thing I have learned is that some of you will have some ideas that I haven't considered and I welcome them, since after exactly a month of running Seafoam in my oil, I haven't been able to notice any improvement in the noise.

[Zanzer]

B engines are internally balanced not externally. That's why we can do all these engine swaps and use the 93 B3 crank pulley without worry of swapping a harmonic balancer like you do on externally balanced engines.

I'm running a 97 Aspire motor in my 93 Festiva and have no vibration issues. And I just recently swapped a 93 bottom end into an 89 and used all 97 Aspire pulleys to retrofit it to a serpentine belt setup. Again, no vibration issues.

Also, the pulleys and/or balancers are not specific to each individual engine. Even on engines that utilize an external harmonic balancer, they can be swapped as long as the balancer is correct for that engine. I.E. early model Ford small blocks were balanced at 28oz and later models (post 79ish) were balanced at 50oz. You can swap them between engines as long as it is the correct balance for the engine(s). A 28oz balancer can be swapped between engines produced between the mid 60's up to 78 and a 50oz balancer can be swapped between engines produced between 79-95.

[georgeb]

As a last-ditch before you scrap a running motor I would run a few quarts of oil thinned with solvent for 30 minutes or so idling and see what comes out. Repeat until clean.