p5 brake swap

[neanderpaul]

No it's not protege5 brakes on a festy. I helped my friend swap '08 mazda 6 brakes onto his p5. We swapped all 4 calipers from a junkyard donor, 4 new slotted drilled rotors. All lines and e-brake cable are hooked up properly. It really is similar to swapping aspire brakes onto the festiva. But now I can't get the pedal to come up. First we did the traditional 2 man, pump pump hold, crack the bleeder, close the bleeder, pump pump hold, crack the bleeder, close the bleeder. We started at the passengers side rear brake. Went through that twice. Then went to advance to get speed bleeders per the advice of htchbk. They only had the speed bleeders for the rear. The fronts are a different size. The commercial guy there talked me into using the loaner tool. It's nice. Pump brake fluid from the calipers to the master cylinder. It all seemed to go great. No air bubbles. Still no pedal. The front drivers side is the only one that was different. When we pumped fluid through it there wasn't as much movement of fluid in the master cylinder. It still flowed through. I'm out of ideas. Anyone?

[villageidiot]

Dunno if this helps, but I use a gatorade bottle, with a hole in the lid. Filled up 1/3 full of brake fluid. A hose from the bleeder all the way to the bottom of bottle. Open bleeder and pump about 10 times. Shut bleeder, go to the next wheel.

Also if its an ABS equipped car, you may need to bleed the abs modulator as well.

[Safety Guy]

Yes, maybe the ABS system has something different to it? Just a guess based upon the Villageidiot's post.

Karl

[neanderpaul]

Thanks guys. It's not equipped with abs.

[Damkid]

My 300zx I believe had no abs but still had parts of the brake system in the trunk with a bleeder screw, so maybe there is a hidden bleeder somewhere, just a thought at least.... My P5 has abs but I can take a look on it to help get ideas

[neanderpaul]

Now that's interesting. We have a help needed thread going on mazdas247.com in the p5 forum too. I'm really baffled.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123799767-brake-problem

[htchbck]

My vote would be track down and order some speed bleeders for the front. Bleeding the brakes with the fluid traveling in the direction of actual travel when brakes are applied still seems like the best bet. And yes, I know that when the system is closed there's not fluid travel, just pressure. But in order to get the air out thats the way I recommend (and how I do them personally)

[neanderpaul]

Advance said they couldn't even order them with that size and pitch. The commercial guy mentioned that you are trying to push a bubble downhill when trying to do it the "regular" way even with speed bleeders. I would have gotten the speed bleeders if they had them. Maybe I'll try at the rest of the McParts places.

[htchbck]

^^ On pushing a bubble downhill the reason to use speed bleeders over regular bleeding is you can literally pump it downhill quickly, rather than have it slowly rise everytime you let off and open/close the bleeder.

[neanderpaul]

Makes good sense to me.

[WmWatt]

Look at one of the last photos (#74) in http://www.photobucket.com/Festiva-frontwheel for the apparatus I use to gravity bleed brake line. Filing each caliper took a minute and used little brake fluid. No need for a reservoir (Gatorade bottle) partly filled with fluid to see bubbles.

[WmWatt]

Sorry for not addressing the question. Seems like pressing the pedal down is creating a vaccum preventing the spring on the brake pedal from lifting it back up? With teh pedal down try opening the bleeder nipple. In the ordinary way of bleeding it should suck brake fluid out of the reservoir in the gatorade bottle to fill the line as the spring raises the brake pedal. I don't understand the setup you are using. Can you think of any reason it would be preventing brake fluid from getting sucked back into the line after applying the brake pedal has pushed it out?

[neanderpaul]

The brake pedal is coming back up. It's just soft like there is air in the lines.
The tool we have is similar to and works like this.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Vacuum-Pump-Brake-Bleeder-Kit-Sunpro_9020007-P_N3378_T|GRP2007____

[neanderpaul]

You attach it to the bleeder valves and pump bubble free fluid in to the bleeder, through the lines, and into the MC.

[villageidiot]

Maybe my description wasn't clear. The reason I use the gatorade bottle with brake fluid in it isn't to see bubbles.

Step one. Gatorade bottle and hose hooked to bleeder.
Step two. Open bleeder.
Step three. Pump brakes 10 to 15 times.
Step four. Close bleeder.

Having the hose into the fluid allows it to suck fluid back in on the sprung upward stroke of the pedal rather than creating vacuum or sucking air. Its also a way to be able to bleed brakes with no help.

On another note..... are the parking brakes adjusted properly. I know you said they were hooked up right, just double checking. Obviously if the park brake uses the caliper pads and not a drum inside the rotor the cable adjustment would play a large part of brake adjustment and therefore pedal travel.

I haven't looked at a p5, or mazda 6 for that matter, but the mazda 6 could use an electronic boost pump and not a vacuum booster, which could change pedal feel.

After all things are bled, and you are running the car, is the first push of the pedal low, but if you quickly step a 2nd time on the pedal does it firm up? When I had my land rover shop a lot of the land rovers had that problem. Sadly uncureable.

Hope that helps.