rebuilt wheels noisy and hot

[WmWatt]

Have driven on rebuilt front wheels (mentioned in earlier threads) at low speed around neighbourhood on errands and such with no problems for a week so took car out for a short spin on the highway. Notice a bit of noise and when I got home the wheels had heated up. Does that mean the bearings are too tight or are they too loose?

Also noticed vibration in steering at speed and vibration in brake pedal when braking at speed. That could be bearings or alignment so I won't tackle it until the bearings are resolved.

I can live with limited to short trips in town but would really like to drive out in the country for fishing and camping. Retired so don't need car for work.

Thanks for advice.

[jjk1224]

Did you make sure the bearing spacers were put back into their proper location? If you do not have the spacers, it can cause improper torque on the front bearings and lead to excessive friction. I am not an expert but I too am in the process of doing my front wheels right now. Also if you used new bearings, the spacing mayhave changed which would require you to change the stock spacers and do tests to determine the proper size needed for new ones.

[WmWatt]

Thanks, yes the spacers were put back.

I should have mentioned the noise is low pitch (rumble) not high pitch (squeal).
Out of curiosity what does the difference in pitch tell about the the bearings?

Also, although the bearings are not supposed to be adjustable it does make a difference how much the axle nut is torqued (117 ft-lb to 179 ft-lb). If I back off the nut 1/4 turn and roll the car up and down the driveway one time there is play in one wheel. If I tighten the nut again the play disappears. The play is detected by grabbing the top of the tire and shaking the wheel back and forth. My torque wrench only goes up to 150 ft-lb and my arms only go up to 130 ft-lb.

[blkfordsedan]

Something's not right....I wouldn't drive it too much until you get the hubs disassembled again. The bearings are self destructing and I wouldn't want you to ruin the hubs. Could be any number of reasons, but it won't last long like it is. I wouldn't re-use any of the bearings or races either, start fresh with new ones. I would take the entire hub assembly(s) to a reputable repair shop that can mic all the dimensions, rebuild them to proper specs and will stand behind the work if issues arise again.

[GenevaDirt]

Did you make sure the bearing spacers were put back into their proper location? If you do not have the spacers, it can cause improper torque on the front bearings and lead to excessive friction. I am not an expert but I too am in the process of doing my front wheels right now. Also if you used new bearings, the spacing mayhave changed which would require you to change the stock spacers and do tests to determine the proper size needed for new ones.

you would not need new spacers....they are for the hub. The bearings are machined to specific specs....the hubs are where the problem lies....that is why you should always reuse the spacer that goes with that hub. Bearings will not change that.


The bearing are pressed in...you should not have play at all whether the axel nuts are tight or not....something is not right, are you sure it is the bearing and not a tie rod or lca giving the wobble? Also....pulsing on braking is usually warped rotors.

[Festy46]

I should have mentioned the noise is low pitch (rumble) not high pitch (squeal).
Out of curiosity what does the difference in pitch tell about the the bearings?

Rumble is loose and very worn bearings with probably some little chips out of the rollers.
Squeal is dry bearings with no grease or too tight bearings that are running hot and melting the grease out of the bearings.

Did you install new races in both inner and outer bearings? It sounds like you may even be missing one of the races or have a very worn one. The races are a press fit. If you can remove the races without either pressing them out or driving them out, your hub is worn and needs replaced (assuming you have the correct bearings).

[WmWatt]

GenevaDirt: I used the axles to press in the bearings and may not have tightened the nut sufficiently.

Festy46: New races (actually "cups") driven in using old ones. Checked they were seated tight.

Thanks for info that rumbling means looseness. What I needed to know.

[WmWatt]

It wasn't the bearings. Early this morning I took the car into the dealership where I bought it 22 years ago and was told I put the little retainer springs on the brake caliper pins on backwards and they were rubbing on the brake rotors. That's where the noise was comming from and that's what was heating up the hubs. I've had the RF hub off the car four times over the summer trying different bearings and hubs to get rid of the noise and heat. What an idiot. Today I dreaded having to pay the dealership a lot of money to do a professional job on the bearings and maybe even tell me the hubs were shot. They charged me one hour's labour for the test drive and fix. (He didn't know exactly what the problem was until he took a rim off to fix it.) I had looked carefully at the photos of the calipers in the Haynes manual too. I felt the hubs after driving home from the dealership and they were stone cold. The mechanic said there is nothing wrong with the bearings.

[WmWatt]

Damn. I drove last night for 20 minutes and the hubs heated up again. When I called the dealership this morning he said that's normal from braking. If it were the bearings the hubs would be too hot to touch. The rear hubs were cold. Can anyone confirm this? If you feel your front hubs after driving for a while are they warm, say about 100 degrees fahrenheit (say 30 celcius)? My problem is that I never felt the font hubs before I changed the bearings so I've nothing to compare with. I still hear a low rumbling noise. Not very loud but noticable. Thanks.

[Festy46]

100 degress isn't too bad considering it's summertime and the front wheel bearings carry most of the car's weight. Your 20 minute driving time vs hub temperature has a lot to do with how often you were braking. If you drove 20 minutes on an interstate highway, your brakes should be cool compared to stop and go city driving and thus no heat transfer to the hub. Make sure your caliper is releasing when you take your foot off the brake. If the brake is dragging, that will create heat. Jack up the car and try to turn the wheel. You should be able to turn it with little to no resistance. That could be the reason for the cold bearing coming home from the dealership. The dealer compressed the caliper piston to work on it and you didn't use the brakes very much to get home so they didn't have a chance to drag. The next day on your 20 minute drive, you used them harder and have the piston pushed out and sticking causing the brakes to drag.

I know you said you checked to be sure your bearing cups were installed correctly, but here is what I think may be happening. The cups are not totally seated against the ridge on the inside of the hub. When you tighten the axle nut without the cups being seated, it is like tightening the nut with too thin of a spacer. The wheel gets hard to turn. When you move or drive the car, the bearing cups move in a little and create the rumbling sound of a loose bearing. Because the bearing is now loose, the caliper "tries" to hold the wheel in position by rubbing against the rotor and creating heat. I use a drift type punch (actually it's an old import ratchet that I cut the head off of and just use the handle) to make sure the bearing cup is seated. When the bearing cup is seated, it makes a distinctive sound compared to when it is still be driven into the hub.

[WmWatt]

Tonight I drove the same route as last night but controlled the speed to hit all the green lights or roll slowly to a stop at one or two red lights and arrived at the destination without using the brakes more than 2-3 light taps. The wheels were not hot like yesterday. Conclusion: it is the brakes which were heating up the wheels, not the bearings. I'm going to assume the bearings are good like the mechanic at the dealership said. Now to find something else to replace on the car.

[georgeb]

Disc brakes will feel hotter because they don't have a spring to pull them away from the disc like drum brakes have.