NAPA's Repair Chat Service Recommended

[JohnGunn]

Here is the transcript of a chat I had with Austin through NAPA's "Ask Bob" chat service.

Chat Transcript
04:40:53 PM [Austin] Hello, my name is Austin. It would be my pleasure to assist you. How may I help you today?
04:42:16 PM [John] Yesterday, I tried unsuccessfully to remove the oil pan on my 1994 Ford Aspire. I couldn't see any way to do that. Any suggestions?
04:42:48 PM [Austin] Good afternoon John.
04:43:15 PM [Austin] Please give me a moment to see what i can find for you.
04:43:28 PM [John] Sure.
04:44:33 PM [Austin] well, it's gonna be just like a normal oil pan. Remove the bolts around the outside edge, and it comes right off.
04:44:51 PM [Austin] I looked it up in my Ford repair manual.

(Note: When I first read this suggestion I was afraid this chat was not going to go so well. Later I checked his suggestion against my 1994 Ford Aspire Service Manual:
"4. Remove the oil pan nuts and bolts.
5. Remove the oil pan."
In little more than one minute he was able to look up this information in the Ford manual and type his response to me. I assume from this he has ready access to lots of manuals.)

04:45:49 PM [John] The problem was that it had been sealed at the factory with some form of RTV which sticks it together with great force. I couldn't find a way to break that seal.
04:47:40 PM [Austin] stick a big flat head screw driver in there, and pry... Then once it's a little loose, stick the pointy end of a hammer in there, and pry some more.

(Note: Interesting that he recommended the nail pulling end of a hammer. To prepare for removing my pan I went to the junk yard and removed one from a shot engine. I happened to have a claw carpenter's hammer and with that I was able to almost immediately pull that pan loose. My pan was much more tightly attached, whereas the one at the junk yard had been poorly attached using a lot of RTV. I tried my claw hammer on my oil pan but couldn't get the tip of it into the joint.)

04:50:14 PM [John] Well, I tried to get a razor knife in the place where the pan joins the block but the space was too tight even for that. Need to pry it apart a little to get anything in the gap. Couldn't find anywhere to do that. Any suggestions?
04:52:14 PM [Austin] Some how you have to fit something in there... Get a painter's putty knife and tap on it with a hammer... Like one of these:

(Note: At this point the transcript had the picture of a putty knife which linked to the following page:
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/S...4?SSAID=228548 )

04:53:37 PM [John] Thanks, Austin. I think you are right. I need to find or create a tool which will allow me to create a gap and then work from there. Thanks for your help.
04:54:12 PM [Austin] and dont be afraid to tap it with hammer. Because that's the only way it's going to come apart.
04:55:39 PM [John] Thanks for that advice. I tend to be a little afraid I'll destroy the mating surface. But with RTV that probably is less of a concern than for gaskets.
04:57:12 PM [Austin] Ya, with RTV, it actually helps if the surface is a little scratched up... Old school guys use aggressive sand paper on the mating surface to score it a little bit, so the RTV grips better.

(Note: I think this last piece of advice is what I needed to hear for me to find the courage to apply the force required to break the seal.)

04:58:44 PM [John] I'm printing our exchange to use when I get ready to try again. Good to hear from someone with an optimistic attitude. Nice Service.
05:00:46 PM [Austin] Thank you very much John... You can actually email this chat transcript to your self after we are done. Just hit the "End Chat" button.
05:02:08 PM [John] Thanks again. I will get this done!
End Chat Transcript

On NAPA's web site, this service is called "Ask Bob," I guess Bob was on a break. But I believe he couldn't have been more helpful than Austin.

Based on this experience, I highly recommend this service. If you're interested in giving it a try click here to start a chat.

[anomoly40]

So you used some type of lever to apply a greater force over a smaller distance?

[Damkid]

:banghead:

[JohnGunn]

So you used some type of lever to apply a greater force over a smaller distance?

Not exactly. Rather than the firm bladed putty knife Austin suggested, I found one with a much thinner, flexible blade that I intend to drive into the gap, continuing to drive along the seam until I am able to get the tip of the claw hammer into the opening.

It is supposed to rain here on Thursday, so I plan to go to the junk yard and try this approach on Wednesday, before the ground gets soaked.

Having a thin blade which will not easily break, as my razor knife did last time, and the courage to bang on it with the hammer, will, I hope, shift things to my advantage next time.

[anomoly40]

That sand paper roughing helps a lot. Just make sure to wipe the surfaces down afterwards.

[nitrofarm]

Not exactly. Rather than the firm bladed putty knife Austin suggested, I found one with a much thinner, flexible blade that I intend to drive into the gap, continuing to drive along the seam until I am able to get the tip of the claw hammer into the opening.

It is supposed to rain here on Thursday, so I plan to go to the junk yard and try this approach on Wednesday, before the ground gets soaked.

Having a thin blade which will not easily break, as my razor knife did last time, and the courage to bang on it with the hammer, will, I hope, shift things to my advantage next time.

John the oil pans really stick,you gotta get a little rough with em.
I use a 1/4" wide chisel.Just try not to dig into the oil pan.If you do a little,its no biggy.You just dress out the scratch's with some scratchbrite or emerycloth.Once you get it to pull away fom the block its all down hill.

[JohnGunn]

John the oil pans really stick,you gotta get a little rough with em.
I use a 1/4" wide chisel.Just try not to dig into the oil pan.If you do a little,its no biggy.You just dress out the scratch's with some scratchbrite or emerycloth.Once you get it to pull away fom the block its all down hill.

Thanks, nitro. After failing the first time, this is just the kind of advice I need.

In thinking of what tools I might use to break the pan loose, a chisel came to mind. The thing about chisels that turned me away is the shortness of the two bevels that are ground to create the cutting edge. Not the sort of slow taper that would slip into a tight gap and gradually expand it.

Just tonight, looking over the tools in the Home Depot paint department, I came across this tool, called a chisel putty knife. It incorporates the best features of chisel and putty knife. The blade is fairly thick and not flexible, but the sharp edge is created with a single, gently tapering bevel which seemed perfect to gradually open up a tight seam. I'm thinking I'll buy one to have at the ready if my thin bladed, flexible putty knife proves to be inadequate.

I'm thinking the most important factor in succeeding at the kind of work we do is to find the best tool for the job and use it with the minimum amount of force needed to get the job done. Thanks for the suggestion.

[nitrofarm]

Thanks, nitro. After failing the first time, this is just the kind of advice I need.

In thinking of what tools I might use to break the pan loose, a chisel came to mind. The thing about chisels that turned me away is the shortness of the two bevels that are ground to create the cutting edge. Not the sort of slow taper that would slip into a tight gap and gradually expand it.

Just tonight, looking over the tools in the Home Depot paint department, I came across this tool, called a chisel putty knife. It incorporates the best features of chisel and putty knife. The blade is fairly thick and not flexible, but the sharp edge is created with a single, gently tapering bevel which seemed perfect to gradually open up a tight seam. I'm thinking I'll buy one to have at the ready if my thin bladed, flexible putty knife proves to be inadequate.

I'm thinking the most important factor in succeeding at the kind of work we do is to find the best tool for the job and use it with the minimum amount of force needed to get the job done. Thanks for the suggestion.

John,the chisel point gets in between the pan & block cuz its sharp.Then because its angled it works as a wedge to pop the pan away from the block. A thin blade will just slide in between without any mechanical leverage.

[JohnGunn]

John,the chisel point gets in between the pan & block cuz its sharp.Then because its angled it works as a wedge to pop the pan away from the block. A thin blade will just slide in between without any mechanical leverage.

I agree with your description. The only thing I might differ with you on is the choice of the angle of the wedge to use in this case, where the seam is very tight and narrow. It seems to me, most of the force of the hammer blows on a chisel will be spent pushing the block and pan away from the hammer rather than forcing the block and pan apart. As you referenced in your earlier post, that might actually serve to deform the edges of the seam, before breaking them apart.

I tend to chose a more gently tapered tool so that I am able to use less force in swinging the hammer. For me, it has more to do with aesthetics than with efficiency. As long as the parts are not damaged, the taper you choose is an individual choice.

But enough speculation. Let me tell you what I actually did today at the junk yard.

I found a wrecked Aspire SE that had only 95,000 miles on it at the time of impact. The oil pan seam looked a lot like the one on my car, probably done at the factory.

I had decided that I would use the thin, flexible Stanley putty knife I bought at Wal-Mart. After removing all 18 10MM bolts, I tried my claw hammer on the front-right corner of the oil pan seam, as seen looking at the engine from above. The claw of the hammer would not take much pressure before slipping, but I could see that it was moving the pan slightly before slipping.

That's when I placed the edge of the putty knife at the seam and began taping on the handle. It went easily into the weakened seam. I traced the seam with the knife for about 10 inches. Then I pried with the hammer again. This time, the pan moved more than it had at first and I was able to push more of the claw portion of the hammer into the gap between pan and block. From there it was just as you wrote, "Once you get it to pull away from the block its all down hill."

During my failed first attempt I had tried to push a razor knife into the seam and cut the RTV between the pan and block. I was visualizing the RTV as a gasket. But when I got this pan off, there was very little RTV in the seam, certainly nothing resembling a gasket that could be cut with a razor knife. It was more like a thin layer of cement. Not the sort of thing you could visualize cutting.

With this successful experience, I think I'll be able to do a better job removing my pan when I try again in a couple of weeks.

I don't know what made me happier, being able to remove a factory installed oil pan, or finding an SE instrument cluster with tach. I'll only have to wait for 10,000 miles to go by before it will match my mileage perfectly.

By the way, the spoiler was gone. But looking at where it had been attached over the hatch window, it looks as if you would have to have a special window with places cut out to allow mounting the wing. Given a choice between wing and tach, I would choose the tach without any doubt.