Front end noise

[WmWatt]

I thought I had posted this earlier today but it doesn't show, so here goes again...

Yesterday I thought I heard a noise in the front end so drove briskly over a speed bump. There was a loud noise on the passenger side like the wheel was bottoming out or something was loose. This morning I took a look. First jumped up and down on bumper on driver's side and passenger's side. On both sides the car bounced twice and stopped. Put the car up on jack stands. No broken springs or leaks from shock absorbers. I had replaced front brakes and bearings last summer so checked that all fasteners were still tight. They were. I pushed and pulled on everything I could see but felt no play. Everything tight. Using a piece of 6x6 for a pivot and a piece of 2x4 as a lever I pryed up under rotors and under ball joints to lift wheels (by standing on 2x4). Passenger side made big noise like something was loose. No noise on driver's side. I put a finger on top of the shock absorber where it comes up through the fender on the passenger's side and pumped on the 2x4 but felt no looseness or vibration. I tried the driver's side again harder and got the noise there too. All I can think of is maybe worn shock absorbers. The shocks are original and have 116k km on thme. I think the noise may be the axle sliding around banging on the transmission? Any other suggestions? Any way to confirm worn passenger side shock? I did not try prying up on the engine to see if it was loose because the only place I could see was the oil pan and not sure if it is strong enough. Looked at motor mounts and saw no looseness or damage there. Thanks.

[Bert]

A cracked or broken spring can also make noises like that. And is not often visible until the suspension is taken apart/released. In our wonderful salt-tempered climate spring steel often breaks apart, cracks, or erodes right inside the rubber shoes at contact points top and bottom of the shocks. If in fact something like this is the case then you'll have to make a pleasure trip to Kennys U pull on Bentley and start scoping around for a clean 00-02 Rio so as to grab a newer-looking pair of springs (and the entire front brakes and hubs while you're at it!). OR call me; I should still have some Festy springs of various descriptions lying about.
Good luck. If this kind of work is onerous (which it certainly is) and requires spring compressor, air tools or a 'blue wrench' for stubborn bolts I have a moonlighting mechanic buddy that is a wizard at that stuff. His shop is off Woodroffe near Strandherd. But he'll tell you right off he hates Festy/Aspire/Kia front hubs and to go to hell, or to Kia, if it's bearings you want done.

[Festy46]

Check the strut mount. Use your 2 x 4 to pry down on the suspension and watch the top of the strut mount to see if the center rubber part separates from the steel plate. I've had this happen and it makes the noise you describe.

[Bert]

Festy46 could also be correct. Upon replacing my springs last year one of the plastic insert plates under the stainless steel pivot washer never bedded properly (and broke) at the top of the shock and caused a noise just like he, and you, described. Was most noticeable when you went over a speed bump or turned the wheel suddenly. The worst part about all this is you have to take all that stuff apart just to diagnose it.

If'n you're going to take springs off to have a look now may be a great time to replace the Festy washer-on-washer strut mounts with ball bearing Rio mounts. The difference in ease of turning the steering wheel after is amazing, and boneyard Kia 2 hole strut mounts can't be too pricey.

[zoom zoom]

Did you check your ball joints out? My van started popping yesterday and everything is intact except I can easily twist the ball joint by hand, so I'm replacing that tonite to see if it makes a difference.

[WmWatt]

Yes, I checked everything for looseness. The ball joints and lower control arms only have a few miles on them and the pinch bolts are tight. I actually had a pinch bolt come loose two summers ago after I replace a control arm so know what that sounds like.

[Bert]

WmWatt: My mechanic buddy told me yesterday he has a line on a dead Aspire at the moment. Either the clutch or tranny in this car gave out. He is intending to have the Ottawa Fire Department 'practice' on the vehicle if nobody has an interest in it. He'll retrieve the scrap value once it's been cut up.
Given that you're going to be playing with front ends soon now may be the time to consider superior brakes (larger and vented/floating rotors) with a more universal 100mm bolt pattern. Rios have compatible front hubs but the rear trailing arm and front sway bar upgrade for Festys are unique to Aspires. Presumably this car also has salvageable springs front and back as well.
Let me know if you're at all interested. I have a completed Aspire-swapped Festy for you to try out or inspect if you're at all curious about this. As you are well aware 12 inch tires are going to become very difficult to get soon.

[Bert]

One last kick at the can: Complete front hub and strut assemblies/sway bar and rear trailing arm with hubs off an Aspire do not take up excessive space if short/long term storage is a problem. But finding a donor Aspire around these parts, when you want one, very much is. Wreckers and salvage yards don't keep these 'bubble cars' around at all. Only place I've ever found them still on the road is in Montreal. And that's a bit of a hike!

[WmWatt]

I should have separtated the strut from the knuckle to isolate the noise to the strut or to the wheel and axle. That's what I'll do next to try to locate the source of the noise. According to the Haynes manual removing the strut assembly looks like a simple job so I can take it out an look at it if necessary. Taking the strut assembly apart is another matter and if necessary I can take it to a shop. Hope to post followup eventually.

Bert: Thanks but I put time and money into rebuilding the front hubs and brakes last summer and replaced one axle. Now that I have the tools and experience I'd prefer to stay with the Festiva front end.

[zoom zoom]

^^

I replaced my ball joint, didn't fix my situation, but the passenger side banging did quiet down a lot. I'll probably end up getting new struts next week, just throw money at it until the problem goes away..lol

Aspire and Festiva struts are pretty easy, pick up a spring compressor from harbor freight for 12-15$, that and a few sockets is really all you need.

[crazyrog17]

As mentioned, get a spring compressor before messing with any strut... Don't take the bolt out of the center of the strut mount especially. I learned the hard way a few years ago... That was a fun, loud and sad lesson to learn. Not to mention dangerous and expensive (released the compression of the spring downwards and ripped the CV boot)

[Bert]

The experience you gained from having done your own front bearings is not wasted; Rios and Aspires are exactly the same procedure.
The real beauty of 'floating' rotors is that they can be changed in a jiffy VS the horrible ordeal of hub, driveshaft and ball joint disassembly in order just to change a Festy rotor.

[Festy46]

I should have separtated the strut from the knuckle to isolate the noise to the strut or to the wheel and axle. That's what I'll do next to try to locate the source of the noise. According to the Haynes manual removing the strut assembly looks like a simple job so I can take it out an look at it if necessary.

When you remove the strut assembly, take the bolts out of the strut to steering knuckle assembly first. Move the knuckle assembly out of the way. Then pry and pull down hard on the strut assembly before you take the 2 nuts off the top of the strut mount to be sure the rubber inside the steel part of the strut mount hasn't come loose. I had one of the mounts separate and when I removed the knuckle from the strut, the strut just fell out of the mount.

[WmWatt]

Yesterday (Tuesday) I jacked the car up again and separated the wheel from the strut by removing the two bolts. Moving the wheel up an down did not produce the noise so I concluded it must be in the strut assembly. I could not get a lever in there to pry down on the strut as suggested so I just took it out by unclipping the brake hose and removing the two nuts at the top on the fender. The Haynes manual suggests getting help as the strut is heavy. Nonsense. It came out with a little wiggling and was not at all heavy. I cleaned the dirt off and took a look. It all looked fine. I could not see any damage. So I held it upside down and shot some oil into the place where it rotates and worked it in, and put it all back together. Then levering under the wheel I did not get the nose any more. Today I drove over a speed bump and there was a "clunk" but not like before. At slow speed over the speed bump there was no noise. Perhaps the shock absorber is worn. I will look into a replacement. Thanks for the help with this.

[zoom zoom]

Have you looked at your transmission mounts lately to make sure they're not dryrotted or broke?