Kia Rio strut mounts

[Onree]

Is it possible to replace the "top hats" without removing the struts, or do the struts have to come off of the car?

[nitrofarm]

Is it possible to replace the "top hats" without removing the struts, or do the struts have to come off of the car?

No, you will eventually have to remove the nut on the strut shaft.

[Christ]

Is it possible to replace the "top hats" without removing the struts, or do the struts have to come off of the car?

Feed a rope through the spring, have a fat kid sit on the car and tie the rope snug.

Unscrew the two top hat nuts and the center nut, push down on the strut stub with a screwdriver or socket or something until it clears the top hat by at least an inch, lower the top hat and remove it from the car. Install the new one, put the strut stub back in, and make sure it's aligned and tightened in place before cutting the rope. Jack the car up and make sure the spring is properly seated.

Done.

[Bert]

Feed a rope through the spring, have a fat kid sit on the car and tie the rope snug.

Unscrew the two top hat nuts and the center nut, push down on the strut stub with a screwdriver or socket or something until it clears the top hat by at least an inch, lower the top hat and remove it from the car. Install the new one, put the strut stub back in, and make sure it's aligned and tightened in place before cutting the rope. Jack the car up and make sure the spring is properly seated.

Done.

Novel approach and worthy of note to backyard mechanics. Truth be known it is a PITA to do the top hats only because the spring tension has to be released beforehand. Whether the struts are on the car or not a spring compressor (or fat kid and a rope) is required. I do recall having to fuss around with washers on top of the shock so that the whole business rides solely on the bearing and not the entire inside of the top hat.

I'd be very curious to hear if somebody out there has switched to Rio shocks when they did this top hat mod. Presumably Rio shocks are easier to come by than Aspire (or even Festy) fronts nowadays.

[WmWatt]

Someone has written in this forum that he removes the nuts from the top of the strut assembly before jacking up the car. After the strut has been removed, serviced, and repositioned he lowers the car while guiding the bolts on the top of the strut assembly into the holes in the fender. Claims to have done 100's this way. Sounds good to me.

Bert: I found a gold coloured Rio with 2-hole stuts as the pull-a-part at Cohen's scrap yard but could not remove the struts. The car may still be there with the struts on it if you want to give them. I snapped one of the strut-to-knuckle bolts trying to get it off. I could not jam the other wheel to remove the tire.

[Bert]

Someone has written in this forum that he removes the nuts from the top of the strut assembly before jacking up the car. After the strut has been removed, serviced, and repositioned he lowers the car while guiding the bolts on the top of the strut assembly into the holes in the fender. Claims to have done 100's this way. Sounds good to me.

Bert: I found a gold coloured Rio with 2-hole stuts as the pull-a-part at Cohen's scrap yard but could not remove the struts. The car may still be there with the struts on it if you want to give them. I snapped one of the strut-to-knuckle bolts trying to get it off. I could not jam the other wheel to remove the tire.

Ah!! Good for you. Visiting and negotiating prices at Boneyards around here used to be a real curse/adventure until Kenny's U-Pull appeared a few years ago. They recently opened another location on the other side of the border (Gatineau) that apparently features 1500 cars! (bring a cellphone or you'll never find your buddies in there). Now you can browse to your heart's content and nobody empties out your wallet when you do find something useful.
If you want to try the top hat stunt I'd be happy to get involved. Even new these hats aren't hugely expensive. I still can't get over how much easier my steering is especially at low speed and in parking lots. I worried last year about salt, water and dirt getting into the bearings and swapped the OEM lousy-fit hard plastic snap caps with compress-fit pliable rubber caps off some other Oriental car (Hyundai?).

[Christ]

Someone has written in this forum that he removes the nuts from the top of the strut assembly before jacking up the car. After the strut has been removed, serviced, and repositioned he lowers the car while guiding the bolts on the top of the strut assembly into the holes in the fender. Claims to have done 100's this way. Sounds good to me.

That was me. I've never owned/used a spring compressor in my life, and don't plan to start any time soon.

If you have an impact driver, you can remove the spring from the old strut once the whole package is off the car by putting your foot directly on it and removing the nut quickly. Just watch there's nothing important around, the strut might turn into a short-range torpedo. There are 100 videos on YouTube showing it.

To install the spring on the new strut body, put rope/cable/whatever will hold through it and jack it up against something that ain't movin with a floor jack. Keep a piece of wood or something between you and the spring (safety's sake) and compress it about half way, then tie the rope or lock the cable on it. You need to do it on two sides half-way around or it will just crescent out on one side when you release the pressure. Festiva springs are light, I can compress them with my hands on good days enough to get them back together.

Another thing you can do is if you have a spring with an open coil (not flattened) at the bottom, just thread it down past the lower seat, put the top hat on, then with the strut fully extended, turn the spring back up until top and bottom seat in place. It's a bit of a PITA, but it works pretty well.

You get used to improvising when the majority of your mechanical experience is in a driveway or on the side of the highway changing engines at 3 am so you can get to work.

[Christ]

Ah!! Good for you. Visiting and negotiating prices at Boneyards around here used to be a real curse/adventure until Kenny's U-Pull appeared a few years ago. They recently opened another location on the other side of the border (Gatineau) that apparently features 1500 cars! (bring a cellphone or you'll never find your buddies in there). Now you can browse to your heart's content and nobody empties out your wallet when you do find something useful.
If you want to try the top hat stunt I'd be happy to get involved. Even new these hats aren't hugely expensive. I still can't get over how much easier my steering is especially at low speed and in parking lots. I worried last year about salt, water and dirt getting into the bearings and swapped the OEM lousy-fit hard plastic snap caps with compress-fit pliable rubber caps off some other Oriental car (Hyundai?).

You can also seal the plastic caps with a thin layer of silicone before installing them, or get sheet rubber (patch material) and lay it over the nut location before installing the strut package to the body so it makes a membrane cover.

If you're really worried about salt mitigation, just apply a gop of thick grease to the nut area. You don't heat them up enough just driving normally to cycle the grease through like chains/wheel bearings do, so the salt/crap stays on top and you scrape it off regularly.

[Bert]

You can also seal the plastic caps with a thin layer of silicone before installing them, or get sheet rubber (patch material) and lay it over the nut location before installing the strut package to the body so it makes a membrane cover.

If you're really worried about salt mitigation, just apply a gop of thick grease to the nut area. You don't heat them up enough just driving normally to cycle the grease through like chains/wheel bearings do, so the salt/crap stays on top and you scrape it off regularly.

Fully agree with you there. I did smear a layer of wheel bearing grease over the top of the bearings in advance of capping the top hats. Bearings are of little advantage when they're rust-seized. Whatever flexible top hat caps I found at the JY fit perfect though.

[Skrapbob]

I suppose if you're an adventurer you could try them at the back, but the bearing advantage would have absolutely no purpose. Rigid wheels and no steering back there, don't ya know.

To be clear, i was wondering if rear rio struts fit the rear of a festiva. I will be changing front and rear.

[nitrofarm]

To be clear, i was wondering if rear rio struts fit the rear of a festiva. I will be changing front and rear.

IIRC they will fit but are too tall? Ask Karl (safetyguy) he has all this in his brain. My memory sucks....Aspire's fit the rear & give you more room for fatter tire.

[zoom zoom]

lol..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYFOI_UsVxI

I'd rather pay the whole >15$ at harbor freight and do 10 more minutes worth of work. The miata lowering springs I have can go on and off without the compressors, but the stock springs are way taller, at least a few inches, and that's about what would happen.

http://www.harborfreight.com/macpherson-strut-spring-compressor-set-3980.html

and yea, the rio springs should work, but I don't think you'll enjoy the ride..let me know if you do and I might try it some day.

the rear (rio) struts themselves are non existant(they have a dampener/shock absorber), I would hope you would be able to see that for yourself as soon as you look at it.

this stuff has all been covered, so I'm just posting here before it turns into another 10-20 page thread of stuff nobody reads.

[Onree]

....Though you will have to install a thick washer on top of the shock in order for it to bear on the top hat inner race and you will have to sleeve the shock rod a bit so it fits snug in the Kia top hat. No big deal though.

About how thick does the washer need to be? Can a regular hardware store washer be used or is a grade 5 or 8 needed? Thanks.

[Bert]

About how thick does the washer need to be? Can a regular hardware store washer be used or is a grade 5 or 8 needed? Thanks.

Over the years I have collected cans and jars full of different washers. These can be just ordinary (about 1/8" thick), the hole has to correspond size-wise to the shock rod (1/2" if I recall) and the washer should bear only on the inner race of the strut mount. I suppose a better grade of washer wouldn't do any harm and certainly stainless wouldn't rust. Roughly 1 1/2 inches (I think) in diameter. Before you try to assemble all that stuff you can measure and pre-fit these washers. Should be self-explanatory once you look at how things fit together. Now don't forget to 'sleeve' (make a collar or do a wrap) the shock rods; Festy or Aspire stuff is under-sized (7/16") in the Rio hats (1/2").

And report back when you've got it all done and have negotiated a few tight spots in parking lots. It is a remarkable improvement for Festy steering and I don't know why it was never done before Kia started making their own cars.