Steering alignment question

[TominMO]

On Danny/Aspire #2, I did my own alignment, which is 1/4" toed-in on each side. Festyboy sez no, you schmuck*, it should be 1/8" on each side.

Drove it on the hwy for the first time since aligning it. Over 70 or so it gets shaky. Also, it seems overly responsive at all speeds. Are both these symptoms due to too much toe-in? For example, would someone setting up a car for autocross give it more toe-in?



* A little poetic license here.

[georgeb]

Don't know about autocross, but when my Festiva was toed in too far it felt like I was losing it in a turn. It will also wear the outsides of your front tires.

[Chobobulous]

On Danny/Aspire #2, I did my own alignment, which is 1/4" toed-in on each side. Festyboy sez no, you schmuck*, it should be 1/8" on each side.

Drove it on the hwy for the first time since aligning it. Over 70 or so it gets shaky. Also, it seems overly responsive at all speeds. Are both these symptoms due to too much toe-in? For example, would someone setting up a car for autocross give it more toe-in?



* A little poetic license here.

When i redid the inner and outer tierods they were toed in pretty bad. I drove it to alignment shop and it felt super responsive before the alignment. they were toed in more than i quarter inch i bet.

My car shakes pretty bad over 70 though. It helps if i just crack the windows. they dont have to be open alot, just an 8th in or so and the shaking pretty much goes away.

[Fordverde]

mine also shakes like hell, but everything on the suspension is new. I'm thinking on going to a wheel shop to get the rims checked..... the tires are new and balanced, so the rims are the only thing left....

[TominMO]

My car shakes pretty bad over 70 though. It helps if i just crack the windows. they dont have to be open alot, just an 8th in or so and the shaking pretty much goes away.

Huh? Not normal or acceptable. You have an issue to resolve. My Festy cruised at 110 when it was turboed, so the alignment that Greg put on it in his driveway was spot on.

mine also shakes like hell, but everything on the suspension is new. I'm thinking on going to a wheel shop to get the rims checked..... the tires are new and balanced, so the rims are the only thing left....

Everything on the suspension may be new, but the steering might not be aligned.

[Fordverde]

I did take it to a shop to get him aligned, but like Chobobulous here, mine also shakes after ~70mph ....
control arms, ball joints, tie rod ends, ect... everything new and still shakes, but at low speeds he drives really smooth...

[Chobobulous]

Huh? Not normal or acceptable. You have an issue to resolve. My Festy cruised at 110 when it was turboed, so the alignment that Greg put on it in his driveway was spot on.

Open to suggestions.

[Christ]

On Danny/Aspire #2, I did my own alignment, which is 1/4" toed-in on each side. Festyboy sez no, you schmuck*, it should be 1/8" on each side.

Drove it on the hwy for the first time since aligning it. Over 70 or so it gets shaky. Also, it seems overly responsive at all speeds. Are both these symptoms due to too much toe-in? For example, would someone setting up a car for autocross give it more toe-in?



* A little poetic license here.

Yes, it's too much. When it's toed in that far, and you steer in either direction, the outside tire is doing all the work until a certain point in the wheel when the inside tire finally does something other than point mostly straight.

I used to run solid bushings and almost 0 toe with a few degrees positive caster (tire forward of center). Not "jumpy" responsive, but cut in nicely and held through curves even under power. The caster angle helps put the tire on it's inside edge (compared to the curve) so that centripetal force on the front end "plants" the tread onto the road instead of trying to roll the tire onto the outer (compared to the curve) sidewall.

[TominMO]

Yes, it's too much. When it's toed in that far, and you steer in either direction, the outside tire is doing all the work until a certain point in the wheel when the inside tire finally does something other than point mostly straight.

I used to run solid bushings and almost 0 toe with a few degrees positive caster (tire forward of center). Not "jumpy" responsive, but cut in nicely and held through curves even under power. The caster angle helps put the tire on it's inside edge (compared to the curve) so that centripetal force on the front end "plants" the tread onto the road instead of trying to roll the tire onto the outer (compared to the curve) sidewall.

Thanks, this confirms what I suspected.

[Chobobulous]

I did take it to a shop to get him aligned, but like Chobobulous here, mine also shakes after ~70mph ....
control arms, ball joints, tie rod ends, ect... everything new and still shakes, but at low speeds he drives really smooth...

try to roll your windows down a little bit, tell me if it works in other countries too

[nitrofarm]

mine also shakes like hell, but everything on the suspension is new. I'm thinking on going to a wheel shop to get the rims checked..... the tires are new and balanced, so the rims are the only thing left....

Wheel bearings & Rotors can cause this also.

[Movin]

Mine shakes like heck when I leave the tire store. They use machines that can only
balance a tire accurately to about an ounce. I have a tire machine that will balance
to 1/10 of an ounce. When these hit or miss balance machines miss, I use this machine
to fix the shake. I like to see how far off the "other guys " are so I run there balance
job first. On a Festy it takes about 3/4 of an ounce to cause problems, I routinely find balance jobs double that far off, even on the same day. Other cars that are very light
and have big rims are much more sensitive than our festies.

I am not saying tire stores are bad..they buy big expensive equipment and use the bajeebers out of them. They get worn. They get out of calibration, this is what happens.
The tire guys can only do so much with what they have.

[nitrofarm]

I used to run solid bushings and almost 0 toe with a few degrees positive caster (tire forward of center). Not "jumpy" responsive, but cut in nicely and held through curves even under power. The caster angle helps put the tire on it's inside edge (compared to the curve) so that centripetal force on the front end "plants" the tread onto the road instead of trying to roll the tire onto the outer (compared to the curve) sidewall.

Your not saying you run a couple degree's of Caster. Your saying a "Couple" in addtion to "Factory". Correct?

[TominMO]

Open to suggestions.

Sounds like you have the same issue I do, too much toe-in. Get it checked.

[Movin]

There are threads on here to accurately check your own toe, If you have exactly the
same rims and tires on all four, and no suspension mods or swaps that would change
your width, the string around the car method is simple. Basically with the string wrapped
around all four tires when you just touch the side walls of the end you are checking the
tow on the string will show how much tow in or out that you have on that one tire. When
you have the steering wheel centered and the same measure on both sides, add the two
together for your toe.

On high hp cars or slightly worn parts cars I prefer the barely toe out side of spec as things flex to toe in under power. For stock and new I like close to zero but toed in.

All cars have a spec and I move around in that spec depending on the car and its use.