Steering alignment question

[iceracerdude]

On high hp cars or slightly worn parts cars I prefer the barely toe out side of spec as things flex to toe in under power. For stock and new I like close to zero but toed in.

All cars have a spec and I move around in that spec depending on the car and its use.

I agree with this ^

I toe my aspire out about 1/16", the backs are a different situation and should always be toed in.

When you're toed in in the front of these things, especially with soft (worn out) rubber bushings (60% of guys reading this), the sensation is that the tire feels like it wants to fold under the car under power in a turn. Throw in stock crappy springs, tired tie rods and then, well, forget about talking factory specs really!
If you're doing your own toe, give what I'm telling you a try.

[Chobobulous]

Sounds like you have the same issue I do, too much toe-in. Get it checked.

Its been done and redone 3 times.

When i first got it it was terrible. it would start to shake at ca. 50 mph. I replaced LCA's inner and outer tierods and struts. Got alignment. It got better and didnt start shaking till ca. 60. Installed FMS springs, got newish tires balanced and installed, got alignment. Didnt start shaking till around 70. Got it rechecked again 300 miles later. Still the same specs as the last one.

Like i said the whole car just kind of shakes... If i crack the window then just the window shakes. Its probally some bushing wore out somewhere but I dont know what ones would make it do that.

[Christ]

Your not saying you run a couple degree's of Caster. Your saying a "Couple" in addtion to "Factory". Correct?

I used to run 10* absolute on my Civic, without knowing the factory caster angle. I had CC plates installed and aligned it at Sears when I worked there.

0 toe, 10* caster (way too much for "normal" driving) and I don't remember the camber angle, but it wasn't high... something close to stock, IIRC.

[Festiva_Fred]

On a front wheel drive car you generally want to have 0 toe or a little negative, not postive, because on a front wheel drive car under power the wheels/tires want to roll in like this / \ since it's pulling it's weight. A rear wheel drive is the opposite, generally set it up with some positive toe or close to 0 not negative since it is pushed not pulled the front wheels/tires are under \ / forces. Hope that explantation makes sense.

[georgeb]

On a front wheel drive car you generally want to have 0 toe or a little negative, not postive, because on a front wheel drive car under power the wheels/tires want to roll in like this / \ since it's pulling it's weight. A rear wheel drive is the opposite, generally set it up with some positive toe or close to 0 not negative since it is pushed not pulled the front wheels/tires are under \ / forces. Hope that explantation makes sense.

Do you mean "camber" which is expressed as pos or neg? Toe is expressed as in or out. Also camber changes are result of the arc of the LCA in a macpherson strut vehicle, front or rear wheel drive

[Christ]

Do you mean "camber" which is expressed as pos or neg? Toe is expressed as in or out. Also camber changes are result of the arc of the LCA in a macpherson strut vehicle, front or rear wheel drive

Toe can also be expressed numerically as a positive or negative value. In is positive, out is negative.

For those of you quoting distances for toe, it's also generally expressed in degrees from neutral.

For instance, +4 toe is 4* inboard. The degree value doesn't change with changes in tire circumference, as it's expressed as a value from a center line instead of a distance from point to point.

[Festiva_Fred]

On a front wheel drive car you generally want to have 0 toe or a toe out, not toe in, because on a front wheel drive car under power the wheels/tires want to roll in like this / \ since it's pulling it's weight. A rear wheel drive is the opposite, generally set it up with some toe in or close to 0 not toe out since it is pushed not pulled the front wheels/tires are under \ / forces. Hope that explantation makes sense.

Re-edited to be clearer, and no I wasn't talking about camber.

[nitrofarm]

On a front wheel drive car you generally want to have 0 toe or a little negative, not postive, because on a front wheel drive car under power the wheels/tires want to roll in like this / \ since it's pulling it's weight. A rear wheel drive is the opposite, generally set it up with some positive toe or close to 0 not negative since it is pushed not pulled the front wheels/tires are under \ / forces. Hope that explantation makes sense.

Thanks Fred- Good way of explaining it. Pos Toe also helps keep a Rear wheel drive "Centered Up" though bumps.

[Occhty]

This is what the hunter alignment machine shows.



Question is, how many degrees camber does strut tower rotation actualy make?

[georgeb]

Don't know but it did the trick on my '89. The pass side was visably cocked out at the top and the strut was on the outside setting. My other 2 cars are on the inside setting. I rotated it and now the tire on that side is wearing evenly. The driver's side is okay with the outside setting for some reason.

[hodginsa]

How can you tell what setting the strut mount is on already? After putting aspire knuckles on my stock festy susp my passenger side has noticeable positive camber, and the shop said I need to get those alignment bolts. I think lowering would fix the camber, but I'm wondering if maybe the strut top is the wrong way.

[FestYboy]

This is what the hunter alignment machine shows.



Question is, how many degrees camber does strut tower rotation actualy make?

strut top rotation is good for about 0.5* and YOU sir need about 1/8" washers placed between the backing plate and the 2 forward bolts of your LR wheel. that rear toe is nasty.

Hodg: if you look at the top of the strut from the engine bay, you can tell what position it's in by how close the strut mount is to the edge of the hole in the strut tower. if there's a nearly even gap all the way arround, the strut's in it's most positive setting and if it's nearly touching the inside edge, it's in it's most negative setting.

[nitrofarm]

strut top rotation is good for about 0.5* and YOU sir need about 1/8" washers placed between the backing plate and the 2 forward bolts of your LR wheel. that rear toe is nasty.

Hodg: if you look at the top of the strut from the engine bay, you can tell what position it's in by how close the strut mount is to the edge of the hole in the strut tower. if there's a nearly even gap all the way arround, the strut's in it's most positive setting and if it's nearly touching the inside edge, it's in it's most negative setting.

Fest-Am I wrong or is that reading @ 1.5 deg of Pos Camber on the fronts ?

[FestYboy]

you're not reading it wrong, that's 1.5* of POSITIVE camber (top of the tire further away from body centerline than the botom of the tire)

[Occhty]

Just so you know, that's an full aspire swapped car.