How many hours should pay for head gasket replacement?

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I'm just finishing up on a job in a remote location where I drove one of my 93 5-speed Festies, and have a head gasket oil leak at only 123,000 miles on the car. I have tools, but no place to do the work. I'm headed home soon. I don't really want to try changing a headgasket in the hotel parking lot or on the side of the road.

Midas (who discovered the leak during an oil change and verified it by washing down the engine and adding dye to the oil before I drove it 50 miles to verify the leak from both corners on the clutch end of the engine) quoted me 3.9 hours of labor and $190 for an "engine gasket kit." $190 for gaskets sounds ridiculous, since all I need is the headgasket, having replaced the valve cover gasket (w/o gluing it in) recently. They want nothing more in labor to replace the water pump and timing belt.

I'm nervous about having Midas tear into my engine -- that's not their specialty.

I found a gray-haired mechanic at a local gas station who seems better qualified to do the work, but he wants 6.9 hours of labor (Midas's 3.9 plus another 3.0 from the book to install a new water pump I have under the seat, and slap on a timing belt, for which he also wants to replace the belt tensioner). He said he's never worked on a Festy, so isn't sure how much overlap. I've tried to tell him that the water pump is 10 mins extra on top of the valve cover gasket and the idler will last nearly forever.

QUESTION: For somebody experienced generally, how long should it take to replace the headgasket on a FI'd Festy. If the book says 3.9, it's gotta be no more than 3 really, right?
If replacing the headgasket, is/are there really any other gaskets that I should replace while in there? What should a headgasket cost? $20? $50?

ANOTHER QUESTION: I did NOT have to remove or even loosen the throttle body when I replace the valve cover gasket a while back. Will the TB have to come off to get to the head gasket? I can remember what it's bolted to -- the back side of the head? Will it just come off with the head (subject of course to connections to it)?

Note: The car has consumed/burned ZERO oil in the 15,000 miles I've driven it over the last 8 months or so. It's also rust-free, so everything will come off easily -- no stuck hardware.

[rockin86ranger]

If the book says 3.9 go with 5, newer books have times so messed up. There is more than just a head gasket, there are intake gaskets, exhaust, gaskets, most places put new plugs in and do an oil change, coolant,.......

[blkfordsedan]

I wouldn't touch it at this point. I would NOT go off of the word of anyone like Midas that it needs replacing. Unless you are leaking compression into the water (overheating or bubbles) or you have low compression on one or more cylinders, I wouldn't touch the head gasket. That can open up a whole can of worms. If they say it's leaking oil, that would be out of the oil return passages (not critical). Maybe I'm missing something??

[georgeb]

That small amount of consumption doesn't even qualify as a leak. Mine leaks a quart between changes but it won't be touched until there's a puddle.

[gauge_half_inch]

When I popped my stock headgasket after turboing my b6, it took me almost exactly 2 hours from chugging into the shop and driving it out, and thats with removing the turbo and cuplers feed and drain lines also. The manifolds do not need to come off, it's light enough with them on to just lift it off as an assembly. And as you said the water pump is another 10 mins one your that far.

[loknlode]

if you haven't noticed it before now, ie not having to put oil in it between changes then the leak is minimal at best. if its burning off water then you have a problem. if no water is lost w/o an actual leak then you are good there too.

if you need to put oil in it between changes I'd put lucas oil stabilizer with stop leak every time it needed oil and if you have water loss I'd either use bars leak or liquid glass in the radiator. that may solve the problem for years. I had a cavalier with the 4 cyl. and it leaked water from the head gasket. I figured I'd try the bars leak to buy some time to save up for the job but 5 years later I was still driving the car as is. all I did is keep an eye on it and it did leak again so every summer I'd flush and reseal it with bars leak. the last time I used liquid glass and it never gave me another problem. we put 70k miles on it in the 7-8 years we had it. never replaced the head gasket.

use regular oil - no synthetic from here on out. you could also go to 40 weight in the summer. any car I have that developes an oil leak gets the lucas treatment and it has helped or stopped the leak most of the time. when I change the oil in a leaking car the first q is always lucas.

the bars leak works pretty good but if you need to re-do it after a while you need to flush the radiator first - you don't want to do several treatments w/o flushing first as it will cause a build up that may clog circulation.

the liquid glass works well on noticable leaks but I wouldn't use it on very minor, un-noticable leaks.

[Bert]

You're working in the "oil patch"?
My buddy in Yellowknife has had to junk his 81 Chev pickup, (that he drove up there brand new 30 years ago) because no one is prepared to work on (or even understands) old technology. They are so awash with money in the north (oil and diamond mines) that every kid fresh out of high school has a brand-new 4x4 with every bell and whistle imaginable, and very few of these semi-millionaire 20 year olds can be bothered to learn a trade or even attempt higher learning or university.

[shadetree]

You could always get a local forum member to do it for you !!!!

[zoom zoom]

You could always get a local forum member to do it for you !!!!

You mean your going to put my car together for me? For free?!

[shadetree]

You mean your going to put my car together for me? For free?!

For you yea but for a small fee ,not free lol .

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

It has consumed NO oil between changes since I started using the car a lot 15,000 miles ago. I change oil every 3-5,000 miles.

Midas washed down the engine comparment the other day for $50. I then drove it 60 miles and saw for myself where it's leaking from the gasket. No, it's not a significant amount, but it apparently made a royal mess of the engine compartment when it got spread around after I thought I'd fixed the only leak with the new valve cover gasket a while back.

There's no problem with the water. The car performs extremely well. It just seems to me to be oil coming out of what's probably an original 20 year old brittle head gasket.

Here's a thought -- if the head gasket has simply lost its "sponginess" and is now thinner than when installed, could I simply pop off the valve cover and re-torque the head bolts (in appropriate sequence, of course). What is the torque value? Would that at least buy me some time until I can do the job myself?

No, I'm not in the Arctic. I'm "Outside" -- Alaska-speak (the "O' must be capitalized) for "outside the state." Similarly, we call people from elsewhere "Outsiders." And we can see Russia from our front porches.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I've gained access to a barn for the holiday weekend and was thinking of doing the head gasket replacement, since the engine compartment is starting to get a tad messy with oil.

Gauge_Half_Inch said "When I popped my stock headgasket after turboing my b6, it took me almost exactly 2 hours from chugging into the shop and driving it out, and thats with removing the turbo and cuplers feed and drain lines also. The manifolds do not need to come off, it's light enough with them on to just lift it off as an assembly. And as you said the water pump is another 10 mins one your that far."

But what if, when I pull the head with manifolds attached up, the head gasket (which I suspect is original -- 20 years old) discombobulates and I need to scrape gasket material off the head or the block. Then, I'll have to remove the manifolds (for which I don't yet have new gaskets). What's the likelihood of the present head gasket doing this?

Also, I notice in the Haines manual section on head removal that the rocker arms and shafts aren't there in the pictures. Surely I don't have to remove those to pull of the head, do I?

[georgeb]

Never removed a head. Don't see how having the manifolds on would interfere with scraping the surface. If the rocker stuff is in the way of the head bolts they must be removed. Be advised I've never removed a head!

[Movin]

Your PCV is working correctly? If you unplug the L tube off the plastic inlet and put
your thumb over the tube with the engine running, do you feel it build a vacuum?

If it is plugged up you will build pressure and it will escape at the easiest place possible.

Wipe it down, clean it, what ever but keep oil in it until your home time and you can
fix it with better supplies and back up transportation and other avenues if the unexpected surfaces 1/2 way into the job.

I would love to work up there !! Yes, I know the downsides.

[TominMO]

What about just putting some "head gasket in a can" in with the next oil change, and see if that cures it?