Grinding noise when turning right

[mmattil]

Hi all, I just bought a 5 speed 1991 Festiva and I have been doing some work on it in preparation for a roadtrip this summer. I replaced the valve cover gasket, timing belt, spark plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter. I have ordered front and rear shocks/struts and will be replacing those this week.
Before I set out I would like to fix any potential disasters and I have recently noticed a grinding noise coming from the front passenger side whenever I take a hard right. I am wondering if anything but the CV joint could be causing this. Surprisingly the CV boots are in really good shape and I don't want to just start throwing parts at it without trying to diagnose first.

When I took the wheels off recently I could see:
-The bushings on the control arms are worn and cracked, but not destroyed.
-The ball joints are fairly tight
-Tie rod end boot appears pretty worn.

The sound is more of a grinding and less like a CV clicking.

If changing the struts makes any difference I will post. In the meantime I appreciate any insight you folks might have. I don't have a ton of mechanical experience but I do have a copy of the original shop manual for my festy and I can follow along on easy to medium repairs with a healthy dose of cursing.
Thanks

[georgeb]

Sounds like a wheel bearing. Jack up that side and spin it by hand. You can also put it in gear and let that side spin while listening.

[mmattil]

Forgive me for asking stupid questions but what should I really be listening for? When I spun the suspect wheel by hand I was able to hear a metal on metal noise that sounds more like slight brake drag but I guess it would be hard to tell where it is actually coming from. I have limited tools so I couldn't really jack up both wheels and spin them in gear. I also noticed that when the wheel was cranked all the way in the direction it usually makes the noise that the ball joint boot separates. I guess I am hoping it isn't the bearings. It seems like the wheel bearings on these are a huge pain. However I understand the safety issues if it is a bearing and I would certainly fix it.

Anyway, what noise should I be listening for? The same noise I get while driving and turning or is there a bearing noise that someone could describe to me. I appreciate all of your wisdom and thank you georgeb for taking the time to try an answer my question.

[georgeb]

A rumbly noise. Also check for looseness at that wheel. Any looseness means immediate attention. Just noise it can be driven until it's loose. Check axle torque while your there. If the bearing is bad I would get a used knuckle and work on your old one at your leisure.

[WmWatt]

Low rumbling could be either CV joints or bearings. You could try undoing the CV boot, pushing it up the axle, pressing new grease into the joint (while turning wheel and steering wheel), and replacing the boot. If you're careful you can recrimp the metal bands which hold the boot in place, otherwise some people have used nylon cable ties. If the noise drops it's most likely the CV joint. I got a 2,000 km (1,200 mi) more out of mine before they had to be replaced. If you haven't seen a Festiva wheel taken apart there are some photos here

http://www.photobucket.com/Festiva-frontwheel

[GenevaDirt]

bad bearing may not make any noise till there is a load on it ,like while cornering. It causes the wheel to flex and add side pressure on top of the rolling pressure. Or if the bearing is flexing enough it could be letting something else, like the rotor, to scrape and make the grinding noise.

[denguy]

x2 on no bearing noise when no load.

[mmattil]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I may just go ahead and replace the knuckle, better to be safe than sorry. If I do replace one side do I need to do the other at the same time? Also, do I need to replace the control arm and tie rod at the same time? Oh and last thing for now, does anyone have any knuckles for sale that are ready to go on?

[GenevaDirt]

you do not have to do both at once if only one is bad. If you take the tie rod out right and it does not need replaced then there is no need to do that either. All depends on whats completely wrong and what you run into while replacing/repairing things.

[zoom zoom]

It might be easier to spin the inner tie rod out of the outter and leave it on the spindle. ^.^

[GenevaDirt]

It might be easier to spin the inner tie rod out of the outter and leave it on the spindle. ^.^

I think he is trying to save all the parts possible. If he wants to save the tie rod then a BFH (3lb sledge) hit right on the knuckle where the tie rod post goes through will dislodge it. A really good rap or 2 and it will pop loose. No fork needed or torn boots.

[zoom zoom]

That's what I always do, well, that + heat with a propane torch. The problem is if you don't leave the nut on the bottom, the threads are damaged and you need a new outter rod end. If you do leave the nut on, the nut ends up damaged beyond being reusable. Especially if its stock parts, or parts with any amount of decent miles on them. Spinning the inner tie rod until the threads pop out isn't going to hurt anything tho.

Everyone says not to, but I would also spray paint the threads so you know how far it should screw back in when you put it back on, and maybe dodge another 35$ alignment fee.

[GenevaDirt]

That's what I always do, well, that + heat with a propane torch. The problem is if you don't leave the nut on the bottom, the threads are damaged and you need a new outter rod end. If you do leave the nut on, the nut ends up damaged beyond being reusable. Especially if its stock parts, or parts with any amount of decent miles on them. Spinning the inner tie rod until the threads pop out isn't going to hurt anything tho.

Everyone says not to, but I would also spray paint the threads so you know how far it should screw back in when you put it back on, and maybe dodge another 35$ alignment fee.

noooo....no hitting the threaded parts...you hit the knuckle itself...where the threads pass through...pops right out with a sharp enough rap of the hammer.

[Movin]

^^^^ x2, bad juju rapping the tie rod end, ALL taper connections, this one included
respond well to "impact defection" of the metal that the taper goes into.

Even axle shafts with 6 tapered locks..One rap in the middle of them all releases
all 6 at once with no thread damage.

For tie rod ends and tapered upper and lower ball joints turn the knuckle for good
access and set up so that joint is decompressed, then give a solid rap. If joint
cannot be decompressed check it between raps to see if it popped.

Save the propane for burgers !

[mmattil]

So a little update on the noise. I finally had some exhast work done and she is quiet as a mouse now, except when I drive I hear a wup wup wup noise coming from the same wheel. I couldn't hear this before because of the ridiculously loud exhaust. Does this help confirm the wheel bearing?