Bad head gasket?

[zoom zoom]

I guess part of my post was deleted, I was saying I thought that when you oil bolts the torque value should be reduced 5-10% so they aren't overtorqued. I think I have a tube of that arp lube left from my bps main/head stud kits if you want me to bring it with Karl. We'll Chase the block threads and blow out the holes with some compressed air, then Chase with Qtips to make sure nothing is left in the holes...unless you get to it before I get there.

[Safety Guy]

He was talking about liquid oil in the bottom of the stud holes keeping the torque from being at full value. Liquids aren't compressible so the bolt won't go down as far as it should.

Karl

[Movin]

Tap each hole, WD and blow with air gun , repeat if necessary until bolt hole is clean!!!
If bolts are not stretched, wire wheel until like new, if you bought new bolts by all means
give them the same treatment. Verify that all bolts and all holes will glide the bolt all the way in and out.
Make a mark on a bolt to make sure each hole goes clear down. Do not add any oil to the hole
and the bolt only needs to be oily, not drowned and slapped in. Never under torque.
Do not over torque much any way and do go over the bolt pattern more than required
to make sure they all are the same. where you started the pattern and finished at the
ends you left the center well undertorqed,

[Safety Guy]

I certainly plan to do it better this time, Movin!

I'm ordering new head bolts. Why would I need to wire wheel new ones if they're in good shape though?

Also, the first time I used a cheap Harbor Freight tap and die set to chase the threads. I just read the other day that tap and die sets are not "chaser" sets. How are they different and do I need to worry about this?

Zoomzoom offered to give me the rest of his ARP head bolt lube. Should I use this or is it only for special parts like ARP?

I'll clean with brake fluid, long brushes and Q-tips, then spray it out with compressed air. Chase the threads, then CLEAN IT OUT AGAIN. Sound good?

Whatever lube I use on the bolt threads will be sparingly used and patted dry so there's no liquid left.

Shop manual torque procedure, in the recommended two stages. Then should I take it one foot-pound more--to 61 lbs-feet of torque to be safe?

Thanks,

Karl

[Movin]

Jeepers I hate the way I write, I try to be happy and friendly like myself but it comes out kind of stark.. I love the way you guys write..

Anyway, I wire wheel new bolts because they may be correct size wise but the threads will be rough compared to used ones. You want all
the legal clamping force you can get without over torquing.

Good contact , machined surface and proper clamping will not only hold the
gasket in place but it will cool the fire ring better which prevents burn through and prevents short gasket life's
from heat break down. The gasket cools by good contact so that the metal can duct the heat to engine coolant.
Lightly surfaced deck and heads will cool the fire ring especially , much better than a clean used surface. It works
like shiny battery terminals, clean metal will pass more energy than tarnished metal.

Taps cut and chasers don't, they "move" the metal back into place. The object is to remove anything that is
not correct threads and I don't want to message debris or dirt back into the threads so I use a good bottoming
tap for this..A bottoming tap is made different than standard taps in that the teeth are full size all the way to
the starting point of the tap. If you wanted to chase the threads when done you can but if you use all the bolts
as a chaser in and out several times in
all the holes when done with the bolts marked for depth you are doing the same thing. Just verify that each
bolt will not encounter anything to hinder getting max clamping when torqued.

That's a very kind offer from zoomzoom and a great product, by all means use it !!

If that is all you have to clean and prep holes, do you have a way to run the bolts in and out several
times with the brake fluid and air? Preferably some power devise like a reversing drill with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch socket
adapter in the chuck..Run up and down until the fluid stays clean..It really does not matter how you get there
the object is the cleaning, polishing thread prep how ever you can.

You got my drift about torque, These are not stretch bolts so I would do three or more stages until nothing
moves...Each stage will always have the one and four cylinders tighter than the middle until nothing moves
when torqued.

[zoom zoom]

Just try not to get debris in the oil galleys on the block, that goes straight to main bearings from there. I don't know if you have a tap and dye set Karl, but you can tell a difference in the tap and chaser bits by how Sharp they are, you'll know a tap is meant for cutting when you rub it with your finger. Chaser bits are kind of dull.

Like movin said, Chase the holes until you can run the tap through them with your finger with little resistance. You could wire wheel the bolts, or use a die bit to send the bolt through it, then make sure the bolt runs down in the hole easy. I'd probably opt for arp studs if I was going to buy new bolts, but it might be too late and that's not a big deal.

I know the book says torque in 2 steps to 60, but doing it in 3 or 4 equal steps is fine too, you want to watch the degrees of rotation the torque wrench moves with each bolt. My bp arp studs were done in 4 steps, the first step the torque wrench got them all to 20 ft lbs, with varying degrees of movement, the second step the tq wrench moved anywhere from (guestimating) 40-100* to get to 40, then the next step the tq wrench rotated consistently 35-40* to get to 60, then the final step to 80ft lbs the wrench rotated about 35-40* with each turn. I'm posting this because if this is wrong I want someone to correct my methods. I'm very aware in hindsight that the new arp torque rating of 80 ft lbs on a dohc bp has caused someone to have a cracked head according to cp.com, but at the same time, I am only doing what the manufacturer recommended and who knows what other factors played a role in the cracking of that head. Those guys love to turn up the boost.

I'll check thoroughly tomorrow for that arp lube to make sure I have it, I know I have a full packet which is more than enough, just gotta find it.

[denguy]

Yeah, you don't want anything in the threads or on the threads that will fool the torque wrench.

[Safety Guy]

Thanks Matt!

Karl

[Safety Guy]

I just called Randy about my B6 head. He said all the machine work is done, all was in spec, and they're just waiting on the parts I ordered.

Karl

[zoom zoom]

how much did you have it milled?

[Safety Guy]

Just minimal. I don't know the number, but it's for flatness, not performance.

Karl

[niccage]

before you start tearing down the engine to replace the head gasket, do you have a compression leak tester or gases in coolant leak tester?

[Safety Guy]

Niccage, we just took off the head after I saw the results of checking the spark plugs and probing with the screwdriver to find liquid in cylinder #4.

Karl

[FestYboy]

ok to continue this... and such (bump) MOR PIX!!!:

[FestYboy]

ok.... umm looks like i need a better camera... better pix soon.