Will a '93L harness power everything in an '88LX?

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I'm contemplating buying a 93L harness (complete except someone cut the dash portion so it would need splicing) from another member to ease my planned upgrade of a pristine 88LX to EFI. I already have a 93 donor (L? GL? Not sure since not there now) and this would save having to extract its harness.

Questions:

1. What sub-model EFI vehicle must the donor harness come from to power recipient's rear defrost, wiper, washer, intermittent wiper stalk, electric mirrors, idiot lights, A/C, etc?
2. Do I need to uses the dash harness that comes with the donor main harness? Is the main-to-dash connector(s) the same across all years?
3. Does the donor need to have AC?

I know that I need to transplant the fuel tank from the donor.

Is there any good source of harness documentation?

[georgeb]

Don't understand the logic of converting a pristine 88LX to EFI. EFI cars are more plentiful.

[Bert]

Seems like a lot of work just to pick up another 5 stock horsepower. The beauty of carbs is you're not constrained to the same degree as with an ECU-controlled fuel delivery system. I just visited with Bravekozak and he has a 93 EFI that is converted to twin carb. Course the engine is also no longer a B3 (an 89 B6) but everything in there looks stock and easy to get at.

[KingFish]

Here is my two cents on carb to EFI swaps. On a carbed car you have 1 engine swap that does not require major modding. That being a early B6. On a EFI car, you have at least 6. I have a awesome B6 (late) long block sitting in storage right now. The only reason it is not in Fido, darned carbed car. I will be Escort swapping this car, but that is a PITA as well, you have to fab a adapter plate for the manifold. Granted that is not as hard as I make it sound, but it cost. That is the only thing holding me up right now.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

My reason is simple: it's carb'd. Several years ago, I paid a reputable Seattle-area carb shop over $1,000 to "make it run right." Their solution was a reuilt carb, all new ignition system, fuel pump (and of course filter), and lots of other stuff. There was ZERO improvement. The car feels like it has a lawnmower engine, bucks on acceleration, and requires downshifting to 2nd or 3rd to climb the slightest hill.

I like the split rear seat, comfy front seats, and overall deluxe interior -- particularly with the extra soundproofing that came with LXs. The body is in 100% perfect condition.

My suspicion is that I've got some brittle dried-out emission plumbing that's leaking. Without the expertise to figure out what's wrong, my solution is to switch to EFI.

I've also picked up another body-perfect LX and intend to convert it to EFI also. Both LXs have AC.

[Bert]

Festys are so old now that only their owners can service them. You got severely stung for a G note with the carb affair and now you're looking to get even more badly bitten again. Those same snotty-nosed college kids that (claimed to have) tuned the carbs will soon be telling you it takes an Einstein genius to diagnose pre-OBDII stuff. Lucky you're in the oil patch (I presume you're working) or you'd have to take out a mortgage to get a modern car fixed up there.
I have a close friend that moved to Yellowknife NWT 30 years ago and went up there with a new Chev pickup. Nothing rusts up that way but thanks to the filthy riches of diamond mines and other golden opportunities no one can be bothered to learn to figure out how to fix anything either. He wound up junking that truck last year because no independent shop or GM dealer would touch it anymore. This was a pristine carbed V8 Chev P/U we're talking about and now you're wondering how younger trades folks think about Festys. Haul it out over the ice and cut a hole in the floor so you can fish for the winter in comfort, put in a Coleman gas lantern for heat, and 'spring break up' will will get rid of the thing for you.

[kellen302]

Speaking as a member of the younger generation, I vastly prefer OBDI efi to newer OBDII junk AND carbies for my area, although I would love to be able to run a carbed vehicle all the time for the sake of simplicity, the drawbacks in a cold, clammy, maritime environment do not lend themselves to a carbed vehicle. But the OBDI efi stuff has proved dirt simple to work with and dead nuts reliable so far.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

Bert,

FYI, the carb overhaul and related work wasn't done by "kids" -- it was a guy in his 60s who surely grew up on carbs and also does things like race cars.

I plan on keeping my LXs for until they take my license away or the world's supply of gas runs out. There's no way all those hoses are going to last that lone. On airplanes, hoses must be replaced every 7-10 years for safety. I still believe the way forward is to switch to EFI and get rid of all the plumbing.

If I had the time, I'd teach myself all about carbs. I don't have the time.

[georgeb]

Your carb issues were handled poorly. These carbs are too complicated to be rebuilt by a civilian. It makes more sense to try a used unit. And the ignition stuff you could have done yourself. You could have bought 2 Festivas for $1000!

[htchbck]

Back on topic (I thought I read somewhere up top that this was a thread about wiring harnesses?) The carbie dash plugs are definitely not plug and play to the EFI harness. You would either need to get an EFI dash harness or spend a few hours with the wiring diagrams of both, a soldering gun, and some heat shrink tubing to splice a plug from one harness onto the other so they will plug together. As for powering everything I have used an EFI harness from an 92L and a 91L (both into 88LXs) and they have both had all the hookups for the rear wiper/defog. But you need the body harness, the dash harness and the engine bay harness in order for everything to plug up right. Don't forget the relays under the dash too!

[georgeb]

You should maybe consider something less drastic like a Weber conversion.

[Bert]

You should maybe consider something less drastic like a Weber conversion.

This makes imminent sense, and requires a lot less work.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

htchbck,

OK, so it sounds like I'm probably better off just extracting the harness from the donor, since it's all there -- I drove it some years back to the spot where it sits in the weeds. I will not extract the harness until warmer weather next spring, since I've found on my 92 parts car that the white plastic connectors are brittle when cold and can crack or break during removal.

I wasn't aware of the need to transplant relays. Be assured that the donor will stay around until the recipient is fully operational!

Do you by any chance know of a source for connectors, pins, and insertion/extraction tools? I'd like to make a pair of 6" harness "extenders" to put in front of tail/brake lights off which I would cut in wires for trailer lighting. I really don't want to cut into (even with "stake on" thingies) the original harness for fear of setting myself up for downstream corrosion. I did a post asking this about a year ago, but don't have time to search for it now. I could buy the other member's "main" harness (he wants $50+shipping) to at least cut off the back 6" of the two lighting branches as a start on the "extender" idea.

[htchbck]

I don't know any offhand, but I'm sure they are available somewhere online. Grainger comes to mind, I know they have lots of types of terminals, but not sure which ones are specific to our cars. The pins themselves aren't hard to remove, just need a very thin tool that also isn't very wide. I like talking a dremel to a #0 phillips screwdriver to cut the tip down small enough to get in there and unclip the pins from the plugs. And yes, cold is definitely a big enemy of anything 20+ years old and plastic!

[crazyrog17]

Save yourself time and headache by youtube-ing soldering techniques. It's easy enough to peel an inch of insulation off of a wire, stick the wire you're adding in through it, solder it and then wrap it with good electrical tape. Especially inside the car, you shouldn't have trouble with corrosion.

Hope your harness swap goes well!