Engine back together, runs, but only a little oil on dipstick...

[Safety Guy]

Aqua ran today after I put her back together after a new head gasket. Seemed to run fine at first. Oil light works, but did not come on. Dipstick only showed to bottom line, though I kept pouring in more oil. I put at least 4.25 qts in but still only get to the bottom line on the dipstick. (I put in most of the oil by pouring it over the valvetrain before installing the cam cover.)

First run: less than thirty seconds

Second run: about a minute, with coolant cap off, checking that (fine)

Third run: A few minutes, during which I turned on the heater full blast to help circulate coolant on the backside, but then the engine dropped revs, kept slowing down and it seemed "bad" so I shut her off.

I feel like I'm toasting my engine!!

Still only a bit of oil on the dipstick. No oil light. There is smoke off the exhaust manifold but I figured that would be oil and dirt and cleaners burning off.

But that engine slowing down on its own, when it was running fine for a couple minutes scares me!

Why no oil increase on dipstick? Could the oil be blocked from settling in the pan?

Ideas please?

Karl

[crazyrog17]

Your last thought was my idea. Somehow the oil isn't getting from the head down into the pan.

[Safety Guy]

The oil seemed to be going down when I poured it on the valvetrain. There was no leaking underneath the car. I put a pan under there.

Maybe tomorrow I'll take the cam cover back off and have a look. I could also try pushing a long flexible stick down the oil holes. Something plastic maybe, like a long zip tie?

Karl

[sc72]

Karl, drain the oil out, that should give you an idea of whats happening or where the oil is or isn't.

[Movin]

^^^ that! Oil has to fill up all the little pockets the first time.
"slowing down on its own " You were trying to hold the RPM at
2000 or something? Or were you just letting it idle?

[Safety Guy]

I wasn't even in the car as the engine suddenly dropped rpms, then continued slowing down till it seemed it would stop. I turned if off just then.

I'll drain the oil tomorrow after checking the dipstick again. Then I'll take off the cam cover to look.

This is a mystery I don't need!

Thanks,

Karl

[blkfordsedan]

You didn't install the head gasket upside down so that the oil return passages are blocked, did you?
That would keep the oil from draining into the pan and fill up the valve cover, possibly leaking past the gasket. It may also effect the cooling if the steam holes are partially plugged. Just a thought...it would explain a lot.

[sc72]

Karl don't use anything but the dip stick to check the oil, you have 4.25 quarts in it already, a Festy only needs 3.5 to be full. The engine slowing down, was it starting to warm up? could the low rpm be coming from the iac, maybe it could use an adjustment or a good cleaning. Good luck

[zoom zoom]

How did the timing belt turn out? I've got the weekend off(Sat-Mon), so if you need me to I could run up there for a day, maybe hit that PnP lot again ^.^ kinda want to snag one of those cd players and maybe a camshaft or something too..hmm, anyway, let me know.

Double tripple check the fuel lines are right, don't know if it will be a problem but its an easy check.

[Safety Guy]

I'm pretty sure I didn't put the HG in wrong. I can see the tab sticking out on the right firewall corner of the block, so this should be correct.

Engine seemed to be warming up. I didn't look at the temp gauge though. It had run a couple minutes.

Matt, I may take you up on that offer.

More tomorrow.

Karl

[blkfordsedan]

The only way for oil to get to the pan is via the oil return passages in the corners of the head. When you pull the VC, check to make sure the return passages are not plugged. Good luck, hope you get it figured out....and it's something simple and easy to fix! I know how frustrating things like this can be.

[gauge_half_inch]

If your oil level is fine, try tuning it over by hand with a large ratchet. That would give you a good indication if the bearings were trying to seize and that's why it was slowing. If it feels normal(tight, frees up, tight) compression strokes. Then more than likely it was just idling down.

[Safety Guy]

Okay I just opened the oil filler cap and stuck a long zip tie down into that corner's oil drain hole. It went all the way, seeming to curve a bit near the end.

Then I checked the dipstick, which I should've done first. It read halfway between low and full lines. So some oil either drained down overnight or right after I ran the zip tie into the hole.

I also put a wrench on the crank bolt and it turns okay, just like it should with resistance then slack, etc.

I'll probably go out and take off the VC and run the zip tie down the other holes, checking the dipstick after each hole. If one or more are clogged, that should show me which ones.

Karl

[Safety Guy]

I just took off the VC and ran the zip tie down all the holes. Oil level is still at 1/2 quart low. And now for pictures:

Here is the top of the block before I put the new HG on:



Note the locations of all the oil drain holes:

Four in a row at the bottom edge of the pictured block, plus two at the right upper corner. The far right upper one is accessible from under the oil cap. (You'll need to turn your head sideways! I don't know what happened since I fixed this on Photobucket before I retrieved it?)

Also note the clean two piston tops vs. the two dirty ones. I believe my HG leak on those two cylinders did that ("steam cleaning!") and it's nothing to worry about. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is the head as it sits right now:



Note the dirty oil pooled at the upper mid-left area. No drains there. You can compare this with the bare block picture.

I rechecked the oil I put in yesterday. 3.25 qts. plus one quart, give or take a few ounces. **Four quarts for sure.**

Two things to note:

This is a B6.

The oil pooled in the head is dirty, not the clear new stuff in the pan. I think that the oil pump is working and deposited this gunkified dirty oil in the head while I ran her yesterday.



So, I have oil in my pan which shows 1/2 quart low on the dipstick. Now add the couple ounces of oil still pooled in the head, plus in the oil filter (the larger one used on a B3; not the tiny B6 spec one).

Does this "add up?"

I figure it might, due to the absolutely dry head from the shop. Usually on an oil change, that pooled oil would still be there from your old oil.

Do the B3 and B6 hold the same amount of oil?

Karl

[iceracerdude]

I'm 90% sure you put the head gasket on wrong. Putting the oil in by pouring it over the valve train is absolutely the best way to do it on an engine rebuild, just like you did.
But I know for a fact, all of that oil will go to the pan right away, and when you check it with the dipstick, it would read to within 1/4 to 1/2 a quart low is all!
If you wait 5 min that factor will drop to 1/4 to 1/8 low is all, depending on if this is a heated garage situation.
Your oil is exiting the engine by way of the exhaust, and perhaps entering the the coolant passages as well.
The good news is, you can re-pull the head with both manifolds still in place, (I use my engine picker for that) but you'll need another $20 head gasket and another 3 bolt hole down pipe gasket.
Don't forget to disconnect the fuel lines, heater hose, waterpipe tube bracket at that one exhaust mani bolt. Intake manifold support bar on the back of the block.

And yes, the b3 and b6 are nearly identical, you can see in this picture of this b6 block there's 4 oil returns at the front and the 2 at the right rear (as seen from the front of the car)