89 festiva stalling, VAF driving me nuts

[bottledgt]

first a little history . engine is completly new and didnt run when i got it. once finished it fired right up, but noticed it ran extremely rich and would occasionally stall when pulling in a driveway when throttle was reapplied to get in the driveway. if you let up on the throttle it would keep running. fast forward through lots of testing sensors,timing,fuel pressure,etc . i replaced the 02 sensor and the ecu with 0 change. after i noticed the fuel pump stayed on with the key on, i pulled the cap on the VAF. it was partially open with the car off. i spent the better part of a day dialing in the spring and the car runs better and no more overfueling,but is still dying/stalling at stops. sometimes to the point it wont start back for a bit. and then its hard to get going. once you do get going itll run great until you get down around idle and try to take back off. so, figuring maybe the meter was just too far gone, i bought a new one. well, the new one runs worse and misses at idle ,dies more often,and way harder to start. tonight i just jumpered the fuel pump circuit in the VAF harness and it runs the best ever without it even plugged in(although rich) i cant get any codes out of this thing either. the meter just goes to 12v and never goes down. any body ever heard of anything similar?

[bottledgt]

ok after i ran it without the VAF , i checked and i have a code 8 for that. so i guess they do work, it just doesnt have any. it tends to run better when cold though. idles like a champ cold or hot. that is until it gets hot and starts its dying fit. then its missing at idle sporatically. ive got a spark tester on #1 wire and when its missing, the spark is really weak or gone, and when its cutting out it looks really weak also. im leaning towards the module in the distributor. whats weird is that once i get past the bogging/missing, it cleans up 100% and will run great until you stop.

[bottledgt]

well, got another distributor today to borrow and another vaf. car ran like a new one for 5 minutes until it got warmed up good again. then at the next stop i tried it started its stalling fit. im about to burn it. ive checked the fuel pressure several times, but i guess ill hook it up and drive with it and see if anythings up there.

[Movin]

I think when you messed with the VAF you corrected it back to spec. Then went beyond until you were tuning the VAF to the engine. You may be covering up the problem slightly by doing that.

This is a new to you engine, are the injectors the correct ones? Are the temp sensors working, the ones that report coolant and air temp to the computer, not the temp gauge or the fan. Air temp should be good, you have tried 3 of them lol. The plug could be bad though.

The minimum idle air flow may be set to low, the adjustment for that is under a rubber plug on the throttle body.

I suppose you have covered the basic cam and ignition timing first thing!

[bottledgt]

yeah...lol. believe me ive covered ALL that and more. i believe the old vaf i messed with was pretty close but i got another one and even another one to confirm it. after today, i believe all of them are working correctly. i swapped the dist today and thought i had it licked for awhile. then it started doing it again. then it just sits there and randomly misses. when it wants to it runs perfect. i was mashing it from a stop and it would peel the tires even. until it gets hot and gets the notion. then you cant make it run until you let it set. i just went through the fuel pressure while driving and its perfectly fine the whole time and all through the cutting out stage, so thats not it. i can blow through the fuel filter with ease as well. i just checked the coil again and the secondary resistance is no reading whatsoever. and it is acting like a coil since its doing it when hot. other than that im out of ideas. everything sensor wise is working properly. it has to be something dropping off when it gets hot since it runs so good sometimes.

[bottledgt]

oh and i cant find anything on the injectors. i have thought about that too. i believe they would be correct though(orange tops) is that right?

[2ruble]

you could just 'adjust' your throttle cable a hair... so it idles slightly hire than it does now... I mean a hair... not enough to idle high, but as you adjust the bolt on the firewall side, the rough idle will probably go away... without it actually revving any highrer...

just a thought so you don't burn the car

[Movin]

^^^ That is the hot minimum idle air, see above.

My injectors are violet ?

[bottledgt]

the idle speed isnt the problem. until it throws a fit, it idles like a rock. when it starts cutting out ,it still idles solid, but has random very noticeable missing like ignition cutting out. and its taking throttle like a champ until it does this. idle is about 850-900. ive tried higher, but that isnt the problem here. when its doing this, it will still cut out at the higher idle as well. and violet injectors? hmm. anybody else confirm what should be in an 89?actually 11/88 car. i found a car yesterday im gonna steal a coil off of to try and its luckily also an 11/88 car and identical, so i can check those injectors as well.

[2ruble]

Not to jack, because I have no answer for you, lol... But is there a factory cluster that has a tach?

[Movin]

I just checked my 89 and they look more yellow than orange but kind of a mix of the two colors.

From what you just said above a cheap spark tester from oreily's may find your problem.
You can do the same thing by pulling the spark plug wire back a little while it is running
poorly to see which ones are doing the missing. Just be aware that if all is good the spark
has to go some where and make sure you are not in between! This will find bad coils, bad caps
or rotors and bad wires.

[bottledgt]

ive had that exact tester on it several times throug this. i have noticed it blank out a few times when its missing at idle. and when its revving and bogging, it shows spark,however the color is really weak until it cleans up and revs good. then its bright again. whatever it is is happening when it gets a sudden load from throttle from a near dead stop. and yes its not a true orange, but a yellowish orange, which on any ford ive ever seen should be a 19 lb injector

[Movin]

can it hold a 3/4 inch spark for a minute or so on each plug wire, warm engine ?

Bogging? can you play with the vane in the VAF and correct the bog? Trying to separate
fuel and spark problems. Might not hurt to check injector screens if this has been setting
awhile.

[Movin]

Injector chart? Turbo guys may have comments..


15lbs = Gray top injectors

19lbs = Yellow (or sometimes referenced as Orange) top injectors

19lbs = Solid Orange "skinny" injectors

21lbs = Solid Light Purple "skinny" injectors

22lbs = Violet top injectors

22.5lbs = Blue & Black top w/ Silver body injectors

24lbs = Sky Blue top injectors

25lbs = Solid Black "skinny" injectors

25lbs = Solid Light Blue "skinny" injectors (Ford Navigator)

27lbs = Solid Light Gray "skinny" injectors

30lbs = Red top injectors

36lbs = Brown top injectors (low impedence, used in the 4 cyl Turbo vehicles)

36lbs = Dark Blue (Colbalt Blue) top injectors

36lbs = Solid White "skinny" w/ rectangular connector injectors

39lbs = Solid Blue "skinny" injectors (Blue Giant) (Ford rates this at 39lbs, flow rate is actually 42lbs)

42lbs = Lime Green top injectors

42lbs = Solid Green "skinny" injectors

48lbs = Beige top injectors (found on 85 CFI 5.0's)

50lbs = Gray top injectors

55lbs = Black w/ Gray top injectors

65lbs = Purple top injectors

160lbs (1600cc) = White top injectors w/ black body

[bottledgt]

well, when i say bogging, thats when its missing at idle as well. you have to play with the throttle to get it to rev up. if you just roll into it it usually will cut out and cant recover and the spark tester is very light during all this. if you CAN get it past that point it will rev out sometimes. im convinced its not fuel now.. it runs good cold at for a few minutes at operating temp. somethings getting hot and falling off... and when it does get hot and choke out ,sometimes it will start back(although missing) and sometimes it just wont fire at all or at random and you have to let it set for awhile,then itll hit right off