Had an electrical fire today...

[Ray]

Well, if anyone does the Weber carb conversion, but thinks it's alright to leave most of the old carb "stuff" in the engine bay, still plugged in and junk, you are wrong.

Had an electrical fire, and it looks like that stuff caused it. I'll be making a WTB thread soon with the stuff I'll need, including:

- Throttle cable
- Weber 32/36 (if I can't get this one to work... the throttle only goes like, 1/6 of the way now.
- White hood
- Master Cylinder (old one melted beyond all repair)
- Probably a few other things I'm not thinking of...

I'll probably have to make my own wiring harness. Old one looks like toast. Not worried about that though.

The fire was contained to the top of the engine bay. Hopefully it didn't get hot enough to crack the head/head gasket... ugh. Frustrating. If I didn't love my Festiva, I would junk it. I've been through too much with this car to part with it.

I'll take some pictures in the daylight tomorrow if anyone is interested.

[drddan]

Well .... that SUCKS!
Yeah, I cut all my wires that werent used, wrapped all wires individually, and then balled it up and taped the whole thing.

Your carb is saveable for sure! Look it over, any plastic on the throttle? Replace it. Also look at the throttle plates, I think theyre called, the brass plates that close at the inside bottom. Check they arent hitting anything and prevent movement. Check the accelerator pump diaphram, and any other diaphrams on carb. 2-3 of them I think.
Good luck getting it back up and running!

[bravekozak]

Wow. I guess I was lucky the first time on my 89 Weber conversion. I just cut the cable of wires running along the firewall without bundling or taping. No fire. I am operating on the same harness now.
I have opened up the patient and surgically removed:
ECA
ECT sensor wiring
EFE wiring and relay (really dangerous. lots of juice)
I used the EGO Oxygen sensor for P/S idle up
All feedback carb actuator wiring
ECA Idle switch circuit
NSS neutral safety switch wire
Radiator Coolant Temperature Switch wiring
STO and STI input connectors
Short connector
4th gear wiring to transmission and to shift indicator lamp

I know there are a couple more I have to check like the wire from ECA to tach

I should have taken a picture of the pile of wire that I removed. It was big. The irony is, I am almost finished installing just as much wire inside the car for all of my options. Progressive power locks, alarm, hatch and gas poppers, cruise, power windows. power antenna, lighted vanity visors, etc.
The original dash wiring harness only had the power mirror and speaker wiring in behind the glovebox. Now it looks like the main wiring harness going from the ECA to the engine. That's what you get when you wire for future door speakers, illuminate the lighter, install a choke light + under dash courtesy lights.
All of the power window and power lock wiring is 14 GA.

I am doing this patiently and properly so that there won't be a short that would cause a fire. I am using open barrel terminals with connectors. All splices are being kept to the bare minimum. Wherever I can, I am crimping two ends in one terminal, rather than splice. It is always safer to have the live terminals inside plastic connectors, instead of just wrapped in tape. I am probing every circuit and will bench test the entire harness prior to installation.

For a Weber conversion:
The first thing to unplug is the EFE heater relay

Has anyone who has done the Weber conversion disconnected their ECA computer? I believe it should still run fine without it. Please let us know.

[Movin]

When you do these conversions replace the fuel hoses with new hose, I like to use fuel injection hose as it holds up better. Route the hose carefully to avoid abrasion and heat.

I used to strip all emission hoses off then put back what was needed with new hose, its cheap like 50 cents a foot. Typically this would be the pvc system and the vacuum advance.

I would cut and cap any wires except for the electric choke. Unplug the computer .

Its been years since we were doing these but never had a problem like that!!
The last one I looked at was yogaslacker sam that someone else did, but it looked
like they followed the same recipe.

[Ray]

I went out to look at it this morning, fire extinguisher armed. Hooked the melted battery up, put the key in, turned the key, and the hazard lights came on along with the radio. I was baffled.

So I ripped out all of the burnt carby stuff, cleaned the carburetor out, got all of the junk out of the cylinders I could, and cranked it. Got a bunch of nasty water to shoot out of the spark plug holes....

Put the plugs back, checked the existing wiring, and tried to crank it again, this time with spark. .....a little starting fluid and it ran. It was sad. :\ poor little guy doesn't want to die yet.

My throttle cable is melted and therefore my accel pedal is frozen, so I need a new cable. 99% sure I need a new Weber, because the old one's electric choke has literally melted off. Who knows though. Obviously I'll need to run new vacuum lines and a fuel line, but all of the cooling system hoses by some miracle still look in-tact and not busted.

What do you guys think? Worth the time and effort?

[bravekozak]

I prefer manual choke any day of the week.
She won't die!
You can't let her die. Just slap in another harness.
I have a brand new OEM reservoir for sale under the underseat rails post.

[Ray]

Thanks, bravekozak. PM'd.

[Ray]

I am now getting a no-spark.

Supplied a constant 12-v source to the coil, and I am getting no spark. Possible bad ICM in the disty? Any way to test that? Anything else it could be? The two wires that come from the disty to the coil are melted pretty bad. (There are two, right?) - I think they touched.

Once the no-spark issue is resolved, I think the car should run on it's own. All vacuum lines, gas lines, etc have been replaced. I do not however think that the Weber will ever have an electric choke again. Not a huge problem for this time a year though.

Still looking for a carby throttle cable! Desperate! If you have one in a parts car, I'll pay you to pull it! See my WTB thread

[Ray]

The Advance Auto Parts store around here actually tests ICMs. Can anyone provide some insight as to how to remove the ICM from the distributor?

[drddan]

I went out to look at it this morning, fire extinguisher armed. Hooked the melted battery up, put the key in, turned the key, and the hazard lights came on along with the radio. I was baffled.

So I ripped out all of the burnt carby stuff, cleaned the carburetor out, got all of the junk out of the cylinders I could, and cranked it. Got a bunch of nasty water to shoot out of the spark plug holes....

Put the plugs back, checked the existing wiring, and tried to crank it again, this time with spark. .....a little starting fluid and it ran. It was sad. :\ poor little guy doesn't want to die yet.

My throttle cable is melted and therefore my accel pedal is frozen, so I need a new cable. 99% sure I need a new Weber, because the old one's electric choke has literally melted off. Who knows though. Obviously I'll need to run new vacuum lines and a fuel line, but all of the cooling system hoses by some miracle still look in-tact and not busted.

What do you guys think? Worth the time and effort?

You cant kill the Weber that easy either. Its Metal! I'm sure the carb body didnt get that hot, did it?

Elec chokes are available all over the place. The rapid carb guy on ebay I told you about, has them. $10 or so. Manual chokes at Mcpart stores.

I wish I could get my hands on that Weber for you. I'm sure I could get it going. Neat thing about Weber's is ALL the indivdual parts are readily available.

I am now getting a no-spark.

Supplied a constant 12-v source to the coil, and I am getting no spark. Possible bad ICM in the disty? Any way to test that? Anything else it could be? The two wires that come from the disty to the coil are melted pretty bad. (There are two, right?) - I think they touched.

Once the no-spark issue is resolved, I think the car should run on it's own. All vacuum lines, gas lines, etc have been replaced. I do not however think that the Weber will ever have an electric choke again. Not a huge problem for this time a year though.

Still looking for a carby throttle cable! Desperate! If you have one in a parts car, I'll pay you to pull it! See my WTB thread

Have access to another disty? Swap it and see if it sparks.
How are the fusible links? Check and make sure they are clean, by pulling them, and clean out any crud in the link box and terminals. Better to get some plug in fuses to replace the links.
If I can get to pick n pull, I will get you a cable.

The part stores here cant check the ICM in carbys. At least last year they didnt. Worth a try though.

ICM pullout instructions:

1) Take out the rotor (you prolly know this)
2) With needle nose pliers, pull straight up on the 2 wires with rubber coated connectors on them, and the 1 connector w/o coating.
3) Remove the 2 screws
4) Now the slightly tricky part, removing the ICM! To pull the icm ......DO NOT pull up on it!!!!!!!!!
The connectors on the icm are horizontal, and need to be pulled sideways and slid out. You can lift on it a bit to help get a hold of it and get it started out.

ICM's are CHEAP on ebay. No Festy's in junkyards around you? They are scarce here most times, but got a couple around now. Wont last long. I stipped the heck out of one of 'em. :highly_amused:

[drddan]

A new ebay icm for 47.50

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LX627-Igniti...#ht_122wt_1120

[Banana Bonanza]

Still looking for a carby throttle cable! Desperate! If you have one in a parts car, I'll pay you to pull it! See my WTB thread

Might also check out aftermarket universal throttle cables. There are like 3 or 4 cheap brand and then the expensive Lokar cables. I got one of cheap ones (think it was Spectre??) for my '84 Ranger cause Ford ones no longer available. Think I gave $15 or $20 shipped off ebay. Metal mesh outer layer and easy to make it shorter if needed. i remember the end that came with it that fit lever on my gas pedal was plastic and broke off soon after installation. Cable came with two ends for pedal. The other end that didnt fit was nice strong metal clevis looking one. I ended up welding washer to pedal arm so I could use it. No further problems.

Hope you find Festy cable, but just saying if you dont, its not end of world. Here is link to one I bought for my ranger: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0008G5FZ6 Though like said I gave about half that price on ebay. And there are other cheap brands of universal throttle cable. With something universal like this you do have to be creative on brackets and such. Course I had to make custom bracket to hold original Festy cable when I converted to Weber.

Oh and on carb, give serious consideration to those early Escort carbs. Real bargain compared to genuine Weber and its Weber design made under license from Weber. I only used genuine aftermarket Weber cause I had one I saved from 1.6L VW that I used to own so it was already jetted properly for a 1.6L.

[Ray]

Took apart the distributor today. The ICM looks fine, along to most of the wiring. Doesn't look like any wires crossed in the fire. However, there are three wires that come out of the disty that go to the ICM. The first two go to the two posts of the ignition coil canister, and the third one goes to...... what exactly? I can't tell where that one goes. As of now it's just a melted stub. Am I correct in assuming it's a ground, and can be attached to a nut on the valve cover?

And good thought on the universal throttle cable!! For some reason, searching or asking for a universal cable seemed to far-fetched to think of. Looks like a good alternative!!

Just two more things til the car can drive again. Need to fix the spark (Need to know where that third wire goes...) and rigging a throttle cable. Woop.

[Ray]

Okay, here's the latest news.

Please look at this picture for reference.

wiring.jpg

What do you guys think??

[bravekozak]

Did anyone answer Ray with a PM?
Is he talking about the module inside the distributor?
He was last on this April 24. I hope he got his engine firing again.
Ray, contact me the next time you are on and I will explain what's inside that module and where the wires go. I believe the one you labelled as G is for the barometric pressure signal.