Eating Bearings...HELP!

[iflypa28]

Ok so this thing as giving me a hard time! When I bought the car the RR wheel bearings were so shot that the wheel wasn't even sitting strait on the spindle. No big deal, I thought, Ive done plenty of bearings in the past. The spindle was actually still in good shape as far as I could tell so I ordered just bearings (Timken) and the seal. I ended up doing both sides (all 4) on the rear just to make sure they were good. Well after about 4,000 miles I started hearing noise and went around and felt each wheel and now the LR was quite hot. I pulled it apart and the outer bearing was shot.. here is a pic...



That is pretty terrible for 4,000 miles!!! The inner bearing actually seems good. So I ordered a second round of bearings/seals for both sides. I replaced the left side and was sure to follow the FSM exactly for pre-load specs. I wasn't confident I had done this right on the first round of bearings! I think the first time I may have done it wrong in a way that left too little pre-load. I drove it about 20 miles and it still felt pretty worm compared to the right side. I decided to check the right side since I had new bearings for it as well. It looked like it was still pretty good but was definitely wearing funny and soon to start failing I'm sure. The inner was good again but the outer had a small grove along the outer edge of the race (the wider end if that helps). So I replaced them as well. I drove about 20 more miles and the results were as follows: both front wheels were what I would expect for disc brake heat (hot but not really hot enough to hurt ) RR was warm (probably what i would expect from a rear drum brake wheel) LR was real hot (hotter than the front and ALMOST hot enough to burn your hand hmmmmmm) So my concern is something is obviously still causing more than normal heat on the LR. Im about 99% sure its not brake drag. I really need some experts here, I have to get this solved soon as I drive this thing 100 miles a day to work.

This is what I THINK I have covered:
I bought a bearing packer this time to ensure proper packing!
Races appear to be seated properly.
Spindles look good.
Plenty of high temp grease.
Used a paint pen to mark axle nuts to confirm there not backing off.
Pre-load ( torqued to 20 ft/lbs while spinning the drum, backed it of to finger tight, measured seal drag at about .5 in/lbs, set pre-load to 3 in/lbs.) FSM says 1.3-4.3 in/lbs plus seal drag so my range should have been 1.9-4.9 and I'm at 3.

Everyone's thoughts are really appreciated!!!

Also...where does this shim go, and is it even part of a Festiva. The PO said it had to have them or it would eat bearings, but every thing else he said about the car was completely fabricated or wrong so I don't really consider his suggestions anymore! My RR is slightly canted in at the bottom and I do think this MAY be the solution.

[Christ]

Check that your spindles are true. You can do this either with a pair of straight edges, a mill and a runout gauge, or have a machine shop do it.

That 'thing' there looks like a really cheap alignment bushing... I don't think I'd trust it over a set of washers to align the spindle, and that's really not the right way either.

Check that your brakes 100% aren't dragging. If you drive 200 miles and coast to a stop, there should be next to zero heat from your brake drums.

Also check that your drums are 100%. If in doubt, just replace them. A brake shop will not check the bearing surfaces in them, they will only mill the brake contact surface and check them for warping and lateral runout.

What grease are you using? Does it seem like what you put in is staying on the bearings?

[Chobobulous]

The problem is you are assembling the wheel bearings according to the water pump diagram:p

Those look like alignment shims if your wheel is ridding real crooked i bet it would chew up bearings.

I havent played too much with bearings but a possibility maybe.


Edit; Christ beat me to it.

[Christ]

http://www.northstarmfg.com/product/46-2100.html

I was right, it's a spindle alignment shim. I have no idea whether it's any good or not, but without a good recommendation or ten, I personally wouldn't trust it.

It does list that particular part for the Festiva on their website, as well as for Aspire.

Also, did you drop the bearing in your picture? You need to clean in there REALLY well and make sure there's literally NOTHING in there when you install the bearings. You should be doing this job in a clean space, or at the very least, with a sheet on the ground under your work area to ensure that dust and fine particles of dirt don't end up in the grease.

You really don't need a bearing packer, either. Just drop the bearing in the grease, pick it back up and work it through the rollers, then gob a finger full all around the outside of it before putting it back. Too much doesn't hurt. Too little will kill it quickly.

For posterity, I throw about a heaping teaspoon of grease between the bearings and another inside the cap before I reinstall it to the drum after the bearings are all together. If there's too much in there, it'll just come out and you can wipe it off as you see it.

[Team Lightning]

Not sure what brand of bearing you are using but if you can get Timken brand they seem to last a lot longer than the cheap ones.

[Chobobulous]

When i pack a bearing i put a gob of grease on one hand. I then procede to "chop" the grease with the bearing until it comes out the other side. When it comes out ill rotate the bearing an eighth of a turn and "chop"the grease Again. Continue for2 revolutions. Just to be sure.

[iflypa28]

The problem is you are assembling the wheel bearings according to the water pump diagram

Haha...thats also a water pump diagram for the wrong car, 280ZX. But it does make for a good picture taking surface.

Check that your spindles are true. You can do this either with a pair of straight edges, a mill and a runout gauge, or have a machine shop do it.

This is a good thought, I will check that.

If in doubt, just replace them.

This is probably my next step.

What grease are you using? Does it seem like what you put in is staying on the bearings?

First time: Valvoline standard grease good to 270F
Second time: Valvoline high temp good to 375F (just to rule out grease)
Seems to stick

Also, did you drop the bearing in your picture? You need to clean in there REALLY well and make sure there's literally NOTHING in there when you install the bearings.

Nope, didn't drop it. Thats how bad it was. I'm really careful about keeping it clean, the drums were spotless when I put the new races in.

[Christ]

Are you installing the dust caps properly? What about the inner seal?

The inner bearing's outer race gets installed in the drum, then you drop the bearing inside it, then there's a grease seal that goes over top of that... If that seal is bad/missing, you can/will get brake dust and all sorts of nasty in your grease, which will eat up your bearings.

The inner grease seal and the outer dust cap are all that really protects the bearings, short of the actual quantity of grease you use in them [which is part of the reason I always use too much... grease heats up and 'flows', having extra helps keep the flowing grease pushing cleaner grease back onto the bearing as it gets hot].

And someone else mentioned it... What brand bearings are you buying?

I use Koyo and Timken almost exclusively for everything I need to do - because they last.

[iflypa28]

Are you installing the dust caps properly? What about the inner seal?

The inner bearing's outer race gets installed in the drum, then you drop the bearing inside it, then there's a grease seal that goes over top of that... If that seal is bad/missing, you can/will get brake dust and all sorts of nasty in your grease, which will eat up your bearings.

The inner grease seal and the outer dust cap are all that really protects the bearings, short of the actual quantity of grease you use in them [which is part of the reason I always use too much... grease heats up and 'flows', having extra helps keep the flowing grease pushing cleaner grease back onto the bearing as it gets hot].

And someone else mentioned it... What brand bearings are you buying?

I use Koyo and Timken almost exclusively for everything I need to do - because they last.

I assume I'm doing the dust caps right, I just tap them in lightly until they are flush. New seals and Timken bearings both times. Plenty of extra grease.

[bravekozak]

You push the grease into the bearings from the large side of the race toward the narrow side. The grease cup is only there to catch any grease that may be centrifugally thrown out from the bearing if it breaks down. Did the grease smell burnt? The goal is to have nothing in the grease cup on removal (not even oil). You want a grease that doesn't break down or bleed oil under load. Use the search function to locate the threads that specifically discuss "grease".

Grease is the word.

Is this what you used?

[rmoltis]

You should identify why that new outer bearing.
Has chunks missing on the inner side.

When those chunks broke loose I see it f***** up the rods.
And I'm assuming the races again.
As well as recontaminated the grease with metal.

That surface I don't believe should come into contact with anything.
Not even the drum where the race sits.
It should float above the races.

Identifying what caused that would surely fix the problem.

Everything else has been said already.

And when you replace everything.
If you reuse any old bearings
use some solvent to clean all the old dirt and grease
Out of the drum and reused bearings to remove any dirt or metal still floating around.
Contained in the old grease.
Then repack again.

I use a Ziploc bag full of grease and drop bearing inside the grease.
And press on the bag to fill the bearing with grease.
It let's me visually see that I'm getting it everywhere.
It's super easy and least messy.

I don't see that the shim would fix it.

The whole drum assembly (once torqued down properly)
Is one solid setup.
It should stay aligned with itself whether its diagonal a few degrees or straight up and down.

If you reinstall your wheels and kick them on the left and right.

If you see them cock left or right.
Your bearings are loose still and need to be tightened down more.

I like to tighten that nut past where it should be to ensure everything is seated/pushed in properly.
The nut will help press any loose parts in place if they are at all.
Like inner outer bearing races.

Then back it off until drum spins freely.
Then tighten while spinning the drum until the drum barely starts not spinning freely anymore.
Then back off just barely until the drum spins freely.
And put the capture nut and codder pin in.

[Zanzer]

Just for clarification, you are installing new races with the new bearings...correct?

[jason_]

My rear spindle outers kept getting rough after 10k miles or so. Finally I decided to switch to gear lube.

Packed new cages with lightest grease I could find, packed it in the hub, set it all on, took STP or gear lube from freezer, poured the cap full, RTVed around cap, quickly jabbed it on.

Never had a problem again.

They aren't much more then bicycle bearings....

Believe it or not, grease gets thin, hot, flings out gets hotter, dries out, gets even hotter, turns into booger goo, won't soften and run back into rollers, end of program. Result is what your holding. Any shavings or chunks just beats themselves to nothing, and makes pits. Gets loose. Owner thinks my god, it's loose! Let's tighten. Exponentially gets worse.

Reason everything is oil bath now. And reason I switched from grease.

Good new seals and I've been running gear lube with no problems for 80k miles now.

Sent from my rooted HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk 2 Pro

[FestYboy]

i wonder if the bearing races aren't being completely seated in the drum durring install and allowing the outer bearing to move under load? the inner bearing isn't under as much stress as the outer and it's much larger so it can handle more stress.

another option would be that the drums are jacked up in the race area in some fashion. a more thorough inspection is in order.

[iflypa28]

My rear spindle outers kept getting rough after 10k miles or so. Finally I decided to switch to gear lube.

Packed new cages with lightest grease I could find, packed it in the hub, set it all on, took STP or gear lube from freezer, poured the cap full, RTVed around cap, quickly jabbed it on.

I absolutely LOVE this idea...much better than grease!:highly_amused: I would just be concerned it would leak out and I wouldn't notice until it was too late, but I guess I really need to solve the original problem first. hmmmmmm

i wonder if the bearing races aren't being completely seated in the drum durring install and allowing the outer bearing to move under load? the inner bearing isn't under as much stress as the outer and it's much larger so it can handle more stress.

another option would be that the drums are jacked up in the race area in some fashion. a more thorough inspection is in order.

It certainly seems like this the most likely issue. I really paid close attention when I was doing it so I'm thinking maybe the races aren't seating quite right or the drum is warped. Of course everything looks good upon a visual inspection. I guess fresh drums and races are the next logical step.