Here is what I see.....

[jimdigs]

I took these pictures for you guys to let me know if my timing is off or not. I believe it is but I don't know if I am at top dead center. I took a picture of where the rotor is and it is at the #1 spark plug location, does this mean I am at TDC?? If it is you can see that my timing marks on the camshaft are off. BUT I can't see the marks on the crankshaft, I took a picture of what I can see. I tried using a mirror but still don't see a thing. Please let me know my next move here. This is an extension of my car hesitation post I have but I didn't want this to get lost in that post and not get any views. Thanks for any help.

[tooldude]

What you're doing only shows if you're close. If it's the '93 and the right crankshaft pulley is on the engine, it will have two marks on it. Counting CCW, 1st mark (factory white) is the timing mark to indicate 10* BTDC, at the pointer, using a timing light; 2nd mark (factory yellow) indicates TDC when at the T mark on the degree scale. If the plastic cover starts to warp so the marks move, accuracy is affected. It's handy to clean the marks well with solvent and repaint - model paint works well. Set the 2nd mark at the T and make sure the cam mark is right on. Shining a bright flashlight behind the cover, you may not be able to see the U-shaped notch on the belt pulley when it aligns directly with the raised triangular casting mark. Then turn the crankshaft pulley CW 1 degree and if the mark was right, you will be able to see it just emerging into view. Saves a lot of trouble with pulling the lower cover.

[dalebwilson]

Another way is to remove the #1 spark plug. Drop a straw or unsharpened pencil into the hole. Put a 21MM socket/ratchet on the crankshaft pulley and rotate clockwise. As soon as the straw reaches its highest point (TDC), look at your cam marks. They should be precisely at 12 and 3 o'clock. This is just an alternative method, I normally remove the crankshaft pulley and ensure I am aligned there as well. Your rotor button should be pointing in the 10 o'clock position. There should be a little "1" on the distributer cap indicating that wire is to placed on the #1 cylinder.

[lessersivad]

Hopefully this came thru OK and will be legible.

You align the timing belt using ONLY the pointer, NOT the scale.

The rearmost mark on the PULLEY is top dead center and the one towards the front of the engine is for the ignition timing.




scan0001.jpg

[tooldude]

Sorry jimdigs, I reversed the "pointer" and "T" when I was writing. Thanks for correcting that lessersivad. I only like to depend on the timing marks on the belt pulleys myself. It will be obvious where the crankshaft pulley marks are falling when you align the timing marks. Still, you can kind of "cheat" taking that lower cover off, it's a lot of trouble.

[zoom zoom]

As much as I would hate to do it myself, I've been in this predicament and I gotta say you should just pull that crank pulley off and make sure it's right lol... It's not that hard, your already there!! easy way is to stick a wrench with a cheater pipe on the crank bolt and blip the starter.

[jimdigs]

Thanks guys for taking the time with the help. I really appreciate the manual photo lesser. Do I have to take the crank bolt off to get the crank pulley off or does it come off around the bolt (I hope) don't really want to try and take that crank bolt out. Thanks.

[jimdigs]

What you're doing only shows if you're close. If it's the '93 and the right crankshaft pulley is on the engine, it will have two marks on it. Counting CCW, 1st mark (factory white) is the timing mark to indicate 10* BTDC, at the pointer, using a timing light; 2nd mark (factory yellow) indicates TDC when at the T mark on the degree scale. If the plastic cover starts to warp so the marks move, accuracy is affected. It's handy to clean the marks well with solvent and repaint - model paint works well. Set the 2nd mark at the T and make sure the cam mark is right on. Shining a bright flashlight behind the cover, you may not be able to see the U-shaped notch on the belt pulley when it aligns directly with the raised triangular casting mark. Then turn the crankshaft pulley CW 1 degree and if the mark was right, you will be able to see it just emerging into view. Saves a lot of trouble with pulling the lower cover.

So from what I'm reading is that the crank pulley marks are NOT on the outside of the pulley but on the back of it?

[lessersivad]

Jim,

there should be 2 marks or notches on the outside of the regular V belt pulley. As is shown in the scan I posted.

You may have to turn the engine over using a socket and rachet to actually see the notches IF they aren't towards the top already.

Once you get the notches facing up, the one closest to the firewall (rearward) is the one you line up with the POINTER not the scale towards the front of the engine.

Then you make sure the marks are lined up on the cam sprocket.

Form your original pics, it almost looked like the notches in the bottom pulley are slightly covered by the timing SCALE but it's kinda hard to tell for sure.

BTW, WHERE in Michigan are you??

[jimdigs]

I believe I found em!!!

This has to be the marks I am looking for. I just couldn't see em yesterday. So I line up the farthest left notch (in photo) to the pointer and that will be top dead center? Where I have it now the camshaft is lined up at 12 and 3 but the crankshaft pulley is not lined up. So my timing is off. Can I just loosen the tensioner and take the belt off or do I have to take off the crank pulley? Thanks for all the help. Here is the photo I just took. Nice and sunny out today maybe that helped in seeing the marks. I am in Jackson County.

[lessersivad]

Yup, those are the marks (notches).

Yup again on which mark to line up with the pointer (left notch).

IF the crank and cam are in time then the cam marks will be lined up at the 12 and 3.

If not, simply line up the left notch on the crank pulley, loosen the timing belt tension bolt,

slide the tensioner back towards the firewall.

Snug the bolt so the pulley stays back and gives slack to the belt.

Slide the belt off the cam sprocket and readjust the cam timing marks.

Install the belt onto the cam sprocket making sure the notch is still lined up on the crank pulley with the pointer.

Loosen the tensioner bolt so the tensioner pulley goes back into place, taking the slack out of the belt.

MAKE SURE when the tensioner pulley goes against the belt that neither the cam or crank moved.

If everything stays lined up, you are now done with that part of the project.

[jimdigs]

All done, Thanks a lot for all the pointers Lesser. It even runs. Ha. Thanks again. It was NOT out of time like I thought. Once I lined up the notch with the pointer and I rechecked the camshaft marks at 12 and 3 they lined up nice. I even cracked it around a couple times and realigned the notch and it was still lining up. At least I know how to do this if I ever need to again. And this may help others who ask how to check timing or set TDC. Jim

[jimdigs]

One more question. What if it was set on the exhaust cycle and not the compression cycle, would the car even run? Because when I cracked the engine around and lined up the notch one time the cam marks were way off but when I went around again and lined up the notch the cam marks were dead on. Just curious.

[zoom zoom]

Those are the crankshaft pulley timing marks to set the timing via the distributor. They reference off the timing scale on the plastic lower timing belt cover. You should ignore the pointer thats sticking out there. Its just going to mess with you.

The one on the right is 10 degrees Before Top Dead Center, BTDC. The one on the left is Top Dead Center, TDC.

The crankshaft pulley bolt does have to come off, then those 4 bolts, and the pulley will slide off the crankshaft. Your almost there! Behind that big pulley is a smaller crankshaft timing belt cog/sprocket, it has a indent/notch that lines up with a pointer on the oil pump housing basically straight up when the engine is rolled over to tdc. I cant remember where the timing marks on the crank pulley end up in relation to the crank sprocket marks.

[lessersivad]

If I'm understanding the "curiosity" question correctly about the cam marks being "way off" when the crank is at top dead center, yes it would run.

PROVIDING the distributor was undisturbed and continually still connected to the camshaft sprocket, and ALL the sprocket marks were lined up, it would still run.

You would have to probably had to use some sort of a straight edge across the lower pully to make sure the bottom notch was a true 180° from where it was suppose to be in relation to the pointer.

What you witnessed while on the quest for checking timing was the "other stroke" (exhaust) of the crankshaft.

Here's an example of what I mean with the above stated provisions.

Back when I was in my teens I had a 327 Chevy I replaced the timing chain and sprockets on.

ALL of the recommendations and instructions were to align the sprockets "Dot to Dot". Meaning the bottom crank sprocket had a dot and the camshaft had a dot (instead of notches and lines like what you were dealing with).

The bottom sprocket dot was positioned up while the top sprocket dot was facing down. OK, so far, so good.

I, being young and wanting to make sure I had it right, pulled the distributor cap to make sure the rotor was facing the number 1 cylinder terminal of the cap.

WTH?? It's nowhere close!! It was off by 180°!?!?! I went into basic "my hair's on fire" panic mode and started making some calls to repair shops.

What did I do wrong?? Nothing.

For some silly reason Chevrolet in all of their wisdom designed the engine and set up the marks so when the timing marks on the sprockets were aligned, number 1 cylinder was on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.

THIS is why for every engine it is best to KNOW by reading the correct repair manual the correct markings for whatever particular engine you're working on.

Had I NOT checked with the repair shops being I was young and naive, I would have probably done something really goofy like pull the distributor and tried to align the rotor with the number 1 terminal and then wonder why it didn't start after assembly.

Sorry for such a long response and I hope it answered your question.

Glad you found the marks and it runs.

Happy motoring!!