93L: Check Engine Light --> Dies + Then Cranks Great But Won't Start

[Twistiva]

OK, I bought a 93L over the weekend from a junior member in Colorado. He said he had problems with it where the check engine light would come on and the car would begin to stall. Then it would be difficult to start. Here's his thread here:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?51501-Engine-Light-Stalling-Hard-Starting-After-Being-Driven

(Be sure to read what other mechanics have done.)

In the thread above he eventually took the Festiva to a Ford dealership in Denver (Brighton Ford). What's not in the thread is that they could not identify the problem (he told me this himself) over a period of several months (he left it while he spent the winter in Arizona). When he picked it up in April or May of this year they told him they couldn't solve the problem and they did not charge him for their efforts. However, the member said it had been running perfectly ever since he picked it up.

Now, it's giving me problems. No, I don't think the previous owner was lying, I just think the problem is intermittant. Here's what it's done to me so far in 3 days of ownership:

- Driving home from Colorado the check engine light came on twice, once for about 2 seconds and once for about 4 seconds. The car did not stall or stumble. No other problems.

- Today, drove it on a short errand leaving work and after finishing the first errand the car cranked easily but would not start. Tried to start it about 7 or 8 times; same thing. Let it sit for about 6-7 minutes, tried to start it again and the car started just fine. When it finally started I noticed the "Check Engine" light came on (immediately after starting?) and I saw it (the Check Engine light) go out and as it went out the idle speed increased noticeably, then the Check Engine light came back on and the idle speed dropped noticeably, all without me touching the gas pedal. This alternating cycle of the Check Engine light going off/on and the idle speed going up/down lasted 3 or 4 cycles over about a 12-15 second period, then the Check Engine light went out permanently and the idle smoothed right out. Car then ran perfect.

- Drove it to a second errand and left the engine running so it wouldn't die/be hard to start. Came back out to get in the car after the second errand and the car had died. Tried to start it; cranked great (maybe tried 8-10 times) but wouldn't start. After about 10-15 minutes it started, ran for about 2 or 3 minutes (no more alternating Check Engine light on/off or idle changing) and then (if I remember right the Check Engine light came on?) and the car died. Tried to start it....cranked great but wouldn't start.

While sitting stranded I was able to call the technician who worked on the car over the winter at the Denver Ford dealer and he said they couldn't run diagnostics on it because they didn't have the diagnostic tool any more (he said it was a "New Generation Star Tester" made by "Rotunda" for Ford) since current cars require a more modern / newer tester. The car did occasionally stall on the technician but it would always start right back up. Not doing that now for me.

OK, lotta words but....

1) Is this a fuel delivery problem? (I smell zero fuel / does not appear to be flooding?)

2) Would a new / different Engine Control System solve this? (I own a carb'd 88 so the ECS is new to me.)

3) Is there any tester out there that can read the info stored in this 93L's computer? If so, what tester?

Any help would be tremendously appreaciated!

[91green]

When it dies does it still have spark? It sounds like my car did when I first bought it back in 2010. Car would run fine cold but when car was at normal operating temp it would stall and check engine light would come on. Leave it for 15-20 and it would restart . Check you distributor. My problem was the igniter. Replaced with used part and has ran ever since. Hope this helps

[Twistiva]

By the way...an ECS question:

In the Check Engine Light section, the 93 owner's manual says the ECS "controls the operating conditions of the engine". The manual also says that a Check Engine Light indicates a possible problem with engine emissions.

So does the ECS primarily regulate the engine operating conditions or deal with emissions?

[Twistiva]

When it dies does it still have spark? It sounds like my car did when I first bought it back in 2010. Car would run fine cold but when car was at normal operating temp it would stall and check engine light would come on. Leave it for 15-20 and it would restart . Check you distributor. My problem was the igniter. Replaced with used part and has ran ever since. Hope this helps

How do you test to see if it's still getting spark? Simply take off the distributor cap and then I should literally see spark(s) jumping across the contact points, right?

[91green]

Use a in line plug tester on any one of the spark plugs. http://www.amazon.ca/Lisle-20610-Inl.../dp/B0002STSC6. If it's the igniter once the car get to normal operating temp the tester won't light up. You also mentioned that you don't smell fuel? If you really want to check just pull the line off the fuel filter with the key in the on position. Do that with help and a 1 gallon jug to catch the fuel.

[Twistiva]

Update: Went to tow the car home just now and thought I'd try to start it again. Fired up immediately and ran fine all the way home. Pulled into the driveway and turned the car off/on about 3 times with no problems. ?????? hmmmmmm

I'd say it 'might' be temperature related but the outside air temps yesterday on the drive from Colorado to Oklahoma was in the 80's and 90's and it drove fine all 600+ miles home so hot outside air temps or hot operating/engine temps don't seem to be a factor?

[Chobobulous]

I thought the codes were stored until you unplugged the battery for a little bit. I remember jumping a wire then watching the cel flash. Have you tried that?

[Twistiva]

When it dies does it still have spark? It sounds like my car did when I first bought it back in 2010. Car would run fine cold but when car was at normal operating temp it would stall and check engine light would come on. Leave it for 15-20 and it would restart . Check your distributor. My problem was the igniter......

91green -

......it drove fine all 600+ miles home (from CO to OK) so hot outside air temps or hot operating/engine temps don't seem to be a factor?

I thought the codes were stored until you unplugged the battery for a little bit. I remember jumping a wire then watching the cel flash. Have you tried that?

chobobulous -

No, I don't have a tester of any kind. Not saying I won't buy one (gotta know for sure what kind to get/one that actually works on such an old car) but as of now I don't have a tester. What do you mean...."watching the cel flash"? Can you do that without a tester?

[Chobobulous]

There is no tester, well there may be but I am not referring to one right now. You just ground a wire with a paper clip or something. Then when you get in the driver's seat and turn the key to on the cel will blink codes at you.

[Chobobulous]

There's a 3-gang empty connector near the brake booster. There is also a single one next to it. Get a male blade connector and crimp it to a piece of elec wire with an alligator clip at the other end. Attach the blade to the single connector and ground the alligator clip. Turn the key to ON and observe the blinking of the CEL. The long illumination is the first number and the short is the second. It will cycle through all the stored errors then repeat. The Haynes manual has what component corresponds to what code.

From another thread.
Edit:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?17417-Retrieving-Trouble-Codes-from-OBD-I-Systems&highlight=codes

The photos aren't loading on my phone but maybe you have better luck.

[lessersivad]

To check for a fuel issue I usually introduce another "fuel" into the intake tube. There should be 2 hoses that attach to the intake tube above the valve cover.

Squeeze the clamp tabs and slide it back on the hose. Remove hose from intake tube. Spray starting fluid or carb cleaner into opening. Reinstall hose and try to start.

If it start then dies. It's probably a fuel issue. If it doesn't attempt to start it's probably and ignition issue.

I just went thru this with my '89 auto. I was driving home and about a mile from home the engine sputtered and died like it ran out of gas. Tried restarting and it acted like it wanted to start but wouldn't.

Walked home and got the truck and trailer. By the time I returned and backed up to the car it started and ran long enough to get on the trailer then died.

Got home and it wouldn't start so into the garage it went.

Further testing found a weak/bad fuel pump. Replaced and so far it's running fine.

[bravekozak]

Bad gas. Drain the tank of the separated water/gas mix from using ethanol fuel (poison). Then, fill up with a tank of non-ethanol super and watch the problem disappear.

[Bert]

I had intermittent stalling problems at one point (and no check engine light) which ultimately (car quit altogether) was tracked down to a faulty dizzie cam sensor pickup. Only the EFI engines feature this built-in counterintuitive device, and as Bobstad found out a couple of years ago, a new-purchase dizzie can break the bank. Other gizmos that can give you oddball problems are the VAF and the O2 sensor.

[muleskinner]

If you still have a problem after all that, look into the vane air meter. bad or corroded wire connections or even a faulty air meter could be causing this. A friend of mine had similar problems and it wound up being the air meter.

[SiliconSoul]

Next time it acts up, unplug your Engine Coolant Tempatutre sensor and see if it makes a difference.