"New" to me 93 Festiva BIG problem need help!

[heavyMetal]

GF was gifted a 93 after her last one was crashed by a drunk kid next door.

1993 FI 5 speed car no power steering timing, timing belt all good and spot on.

This thing has been a pain in the butt from day one, replaced fuel pump and filter, O2 sensor, oil and filter, air filter last couple days a new TPS, which I set with my multi meter, and an ignition module.

I get no change in symptoms!

Here's the issue: starts and runs well to warm up point ( about 3 to 5 minutes) then starts idling terrible and you can't get it to break idle with out stalling!

Any movement out of the throttle idle position and it craps out. Searched for Vacuum leaks didn't find any and can't hear them either Vacuum gauge running 21 when everything is smooth.

Last night, after the ignition module install and once again making sure the TPS was set right, it ran great at start up and I thought I had it fixed!

Ran the usuall few minutes and started the poor idle routine. Played with the air bleed but no change in idle then noticed the VAF sounded like it had a bunch of Hornets in it, A real buzzing noise.

Wasn't doing this at start up but as soon as I noticed the poor idle I also heard this buzzing noise, could this be a bad VAF?

I do have a "clean" VAF just purchased, I made a hasty install last week and it wouldn't run at all ( forgot to un plug battery before trying to start it) Plan to go pull it from my storage this afternoon after work and re try it.


Mean while anyone had the same problem? Looking for an answer fast the GF can't handle not having a ride.

[redroket]

Mine did that when I bought it this summer, (92 gl) my air flow meter was hanging up, basically locked in place, we dismantled it, oiled with penetrating oil and gun oil, and have had no issues in 4k miles

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

[kevyrev]

Check to make sure your VAF is not stuck. +1

[koRnhead]

Definitely try your vaf. Or one from a running car......perhaps you overlooked a crack in the intake tube as well.

[heavyMetal]

OK I got a chance to put the "new" VAF in the car, pulled Neg cable off battery while doing it, and car wants to start but acts like it's out of fuel????

I put in a new fuel pump weeks ago but now I don't hear it run when I turn on the key!

Puttered around with a couple idea and then decided to bypass the fuel pump relys with the connector under the hood: Instant start up!

The rely's must be bad so I'll search for them when I get the chance, for now I'll put a jumper acros the by pass rely and adjust the idle tonight when I get home.

To much electrical crap in these older FI cars particularly that "safety switch" for the fuel pump but at least I got it running.

New VAF sounds good as well it's supposed to only have 900 original miles on it and it really has the engine purring at least off idle, at midnight your just glad it starts ya know!

I'll fine tune it tonight andpost an update

[bhazard]

That safety switch is what helps keep your car from bursting into flames and cooking you if you get in a wreck.

[heavyMetal]

so another up date:

Last night I re adjusted the TPS after I brought the "adjustment" screw under the dashpot into complete contact with the throttle arm then added the 2 mm feeler gauge and adjusted for "tone" on the idle and WOT contacts.

Lordy lord it fired right up and idled great! I ran it about 5 minutes to be sure it was going to stick and then followed the GF home as she drove it.

Made it most of the way home and about 100 yards from the apt it crapped out and died GF claiming it wouldn't restart. Not wanting to deal with it sitting in the middle of the blvd. I put my Jeep bumper up against it and pushed her the last hundred yards to the carport in the apt complex.

Then I called it a night!!

Thinking it might be a fuel pump issue I went out after work pulled the rear seat out put a jumber in the bypass connection and turned on the key switch, instant purring from the pump!

Got behind the wheel and fired it: it runs about a minute then rattles and dies!

From what I've read here that is a sure sign the VAF is bad, google fu shows Autozone with a reman for 89 bucks it will be here Sat!

Any other ideas gentleman?

[1990new]

Just a though... No mention has been made about the bypass air valve.
The bypass air valve is open when the coolant temperature is below 140 degrees F but is supposed to close above that.
If it is not closing when the engine is warmed up and the computer thinks it is and triggers leaning of the fuel mixture,
wouldn't this cause the mixture to be excessively lean due to the additional air coming through the bypass valve
and result in crappy idling after the engine is warm?

[heavyMetal]

1990new:

Your thoughts on the bypass are good but the issues ins't after warm up it's all the time.

An FI should start and run instantly with idle a little rich until warm up, in this case it starts runs about 30 to 60 seconds, just enough to give one hope that it's fixed, and then rattles and dies.

If I could get it to run long enugh to warm up and have poor idle I will do something with the bypass but until then I still think my VAF is dead and need it replaced.

Had thoughts about the dizzy but it start and sounds good for that first minute if the dizzy was bad I think it would have to run long ehough to heat up or simply not start at all.

[1990new]

What triggered my thoughts:
In your first post you stated "Here's the issue: starts and runs well to warm up point ( about 3 to 5 minutes) then starts idling terrible and you can't get it to break idle with out stalling!" That's the problem that I thought might be related to the IAC.

The current problem "in this case it starts runs about 30 to 60 seconds, just enough to give one hope that it's fixed, and then rattles and dies." describes what happens when I forget to reconnect the wire on the VAF.
When the key is in the start position it signals the fuel pump relay to start the pump and this supplies fuel for starting. When the engine starts and you release the key to the run position, the VAF fuel pump switch is supposed to be activated by the flow of air that is generated by the vacuum of the running engine. If the fuel pump relay does
not get this signal, it does not continue the operation of the fuel pump and pressurized fuel stop going to the injectors and the engine dies.

So it could actually be your VAF meter, or a broken connection from your VAF meter to the ECA or even the fuel pump relay among other things.
If you don't have a 90 or later Festiva shop manual, you should get one. It is well worth the cost.

Since I have not experienced any problems related the fuel injections system on my Festivas, (except forgetting to connect the VAF) I don't
have much direct knowledge about diagnosing and repairing them.

Some other folks who have direct experience will eventually chime in here with more info.
Good luck finding the problem and getting your Festiva running like it should.

[heavyMetal]

My thoughts on this is I am fighting a couple different problems at the same time. Now that I have a "correct" idle air bleed setting I can proceed from there with a VAF from the auto parts store.

With the fuel pump bypass "jumpered" it should be by passing everything in the system but the E shut off which should include the internal fuel pump switch in the VAF.

Since it is starting and then shutting off I can only think that some of the circuitry in the VAF must be cooked??

I will be asking the auto parts store if the can test the dizzy if they can I may pull that just to remove it as a source of the problem.

I actually have a 1993 ford service manual, not the Haynes, and sadly all it does is refer you to another Ford manual specifically for FI service and diagnostics so I am still looking to solve my problem.

Sat will net me a recon VAF and we'll go to the old one change at a time concept to see if I can figure it out.

[heavyMetal]

First a tip of the hat to 1990new he nailed the IAC bypass fault right off the bat!

Replaced the VAF with a known good reman from AutoZone and it still failed to run
.
Got a refund, gotta like dealing with Autozone, with no hassle at all. While I was in the store a guy who had owned a Festiva in the past asked me what the OBD was saying.

Since I haven't been able to figure out how to get the stupid thing to talk to me, two different connections set up's in the book, none in the FSM, and neither work with the connections in my car.

I explained that to him so nope no OBD codes.

He laughed and suggested I simply ground the STI plug and turn on the key, something not in either manual, and read the CEL.

Sure enough it worked and I got a 34 which is bad wireing from ISC/ bpa, short in wiring to ISC or a Bad ISC /bpa, or a bad ISC/bpa.

Looking for one in LA was a joke, no one can even find it in thier computers or someone they can order it from. O'Reilly's did find somone back east but at $575.00 plus shipping it can stay there!

Exhusted all the auto parts stores here, thought surely NAPA would have one but no luck.

Saw a new one for 175 on Ebay, still more than I want to pay, and found a used one at $69.19 shipped out of Vancover with return policy if it fails when I recieve it.

It's on the way and I will post my success or not, when it arrives sometime weds'ish.

[1990new]

The failed ISC / bpa (Idle Speed Control / Bypass Air) can be a problem but that problem alone will not prevent the engine from running.
The valve being open when the engine is not warmed up just allows a little extra air to flow into the intake manifold plenum, regardless of the throttle position. If the valve
fails to close when the engine gets warm, I don't think that alone should cause the engine to stop running completely.
Your description stating that the engine starts and run some seconds then dies sounds more like a fuel starvation problem.
Wish I could be more helpful but like I said, I have not personally experienced and solved a problem like that with any of my Festivas (other that forgetting to connect the VAF).

[Gomez]

Check the plug that goes into the VAF. Possible damage can cause bad connections. I have seen people have to wedge stuff into the vaf plug area to put pressure in the right area just to keep the car running.

[Gomez]

Check the plug that goes into the VAF. Possible damage can cause bad connections. I have seen people have to wedge stuff into the vaf plug area to put pressure in the right area just to keep the car running. I saw this on Arty's car once and it involved a stick cut to the proper length. Or maybe it was on a car he was working on. Anyway it involved Arty (Festyboy) LOL

The plugs get corroded or damaged or just plain wear out.