On replacing tie rod ends lower control arm and ball joints on the Aspire-??

[harpon]

What other parts do I need or what else is expedient or usual with this procedure?

Making rumbling noises on front right wheel well, and not tied to shifting, so I'm making an educated guess that this is needed

Also = what is a reasonable ball park figure for getting this repair done on both sides of the front at a shop?

anyone know?

somebody let the air out of the tire last week I guess, because when I got it reseated and inflated there is no other leak-
and it happened once before on a back tire- Kids today!

[TominMO]

Rumbling is more likely wheel bearings. Turn left and right to see if it gets louder and softer. When turning left, you are putting more load on the right wheel, so it should get louder. When you turn right, it should pretty much go away due to little or no load.

[harpon]

Does it when I'm driving forward- haven't tried the turning bit but will,
thank you

[harpon]

Is a "sway bar" the same thing as a "stabilizer bar" and are those bushings typically replaced when the tie rods and ball joints are replaced- or is that getting into something else again?

and also, are the wheel bearings more easily facilitated and included, or is much more and altogether another repair?
There may be a small chirp developing on the drivers side- the bearing likely?

A short test with turning seems to indicate that is of no consequence- it generally does it starting out and going slow- just now turning the A/C off in Florida so it may have started when I couldn't hear it over the fan noise-

It probably will tend to get worse, but I feel like that it may not get worse that quickly- most of the parts are on order already

Still wonder what this might cost in a shop?

thank you

[Movin]

At a shop? An alignment is $45 to $55. R&R lower control arms and tie rod ends Takes about an hour so probably books for two hours at what $80 to $100 an hour ? They probably want an hour per side for front wheel bearings. You need to find a shop that is familiar with these wheel bearings or it could cost you dearly.

As long as its apart what about rotors and brakes. Is it time to pack the rear bearings? Front struts ? Rack and pinion tight ?

If the budget is tight then be ready to say no as a mechanic is supposed to bring things to your attention. The more they can do at one time the more profitable it is for them and sometimes it can save you money. There is a lot that could be discussed before and during the repairs.

[harpon]

I put new pads on a few years back- not many miles though- and checked the one visually when I had the wheel off when the air was let out-

no problem there or with function- it pays not to hot rod around and I never have a back seat to weigh it down accelerating or braking.

The wheel bearing may not be a problem yet either- I said "rumbling" in the O.P. and I guess it's really more of a clunking sound- there doesn't seem to be any great shifts of momentum or verticle movement involved- sounds like worn ball joints I'm guessing, but I was thinking after that I probably don't want to wait too long to get to it, because that may somehow compromise the CV if the suspension is loose, and I don't think there are any problems with CV joints yet

I've driven this car from 35 K in 2003 to 117K now and the old '88 Festy from 175 K to 275 K and this is the FIRST problem of any sort I've had with ANY suspension- the back struts are spongy too, and I was gonna try to have them done soon, but this will have to take priority now. Got a rebuilt alternator on the shelf if I ever need it and I changed the 88 Festiva alternator at about 200 K I guess it was.

anyway- what about the "sway bar " bushings- the tie rods connect to that don't they? Should those bushings be changed over?

[jawja jim]

Sway bar to control arm bushings that are shot can give a clunking sound sometimes, but would probably appear visibly bad on close inspection.

[Movin]

My new lower control arms came with the rear sway bar bushings as they have to come off to put on the control arms. The front bushings are a separate project. Note: the rear bushings can change your alignment settings but it is unlikely the front would unless the bushing is hanging out or missing.

If your alignment is okay now and the lower control arms are just noisy but not loose you could put off the alignment until you get tires. Waiting until all is done before the alignment is done to save a little is what I am saying, maybe even advocating if there is some doubt that the parts replaced are the only parts needed. I am not advocating putting something on the road out of alignment and unsafe. You do not want to destroy tires either. A week or month if you do not drive much trying out the new parts and letting the bushings break in before the alignment is done is not a bad idea but only if the alignment is good enough now and you have no parts allowing movement in the tire while in the air.

Lower ball joints can be crazy noisy, can cause suspension hangups and weird steering sensations.

[jbibb1]

When I do work on the front end of one of my Aspires I do the whole thing - inner and outer tie rods, lower control arms, sway bar bushings - I figure if I've got it torn down that far might as well do it all, it's not like I'm getting rid of it anytime soon. Also take a good hard look at the steering rack boots, when replacing the inner and outer tie rods is the perfect time to put new boots on the steering rack. From what you've said, I agree with tominmo -sounds like a wheelbearing to me too. When you do the turn test also listen for a popping sound, if you hear it, then it's time to replace the axles while you're in there. As far as what it would cost to have done at a shop, I have no clue but I'm guessing a lot. I do as much as I can my self, the only thing I can't do is the front end alignment and the pressing in and out of the front hub bearings (Timken set 11 for the inner and outer - don't forget the inner and outer seals). I had a set of hub bearings pressed in two weeks ago for blue and it cost me 30 bucks to have the bearings pressed in and the seals installed.

[TominMO]

When I do work on the front end of one of my Aspires I do the whole thing - inner and outer tie rods, lower control arms, sway bar bushings - I figure if I've got it torn down that far might as well do it all, it's not like I'm getting rid of it anytime soon. Also take a good hard look at the steering rack boots, when replacing the inner and outer tie rods is the perfect time to put new boots on the steering rack. From what you've said, I agree with tominmo -sounds like a wheelbearing to me too. When you do the turn test also listen for a popping sound, if you hear it, then it's time to replace the axles while you're in there. As far as what it would cost to have done at a shop, I have no clue but I'm guessing a lot. I do as much as I can my self, the only thing I can't do is the front end alignment and the pressing in and out of the front hub bearings (Timken set 11 for the inner and outer - don't forget the inner and outer seals). I had a set of hub bearings pressed in two weeks ago for blue and it cost me 30 bucks to have the bearings pressed in and the seals installed.

1. Where does one go to get the hub bearings pressed in, and have confidence they know what they are doing?

2. Front end alignment is easy/kwik/free. It's easier with a friend to hold the other end of the tape measure, but even that is not critical. What I did is buy a yardstick and attach a long-enough piece of 1x2 (I think) to it so that it would reach the whole width of the outer tread of both front tires. On the end of the 1x2 I attached a small 90-degree bracket, so it would fit into a tire groove and hold.
a. If for example I'm on the driver's side, I use a toolbox or something to hold the pass. side of this tool in place, in the groove I've chosen to make measurements. I'm holding the yardstick, and the 1x2 end is on the pass. side. It doesn't matter what groove you select, just so you are consistent in using the same groove to take measurements on the front and back of the tire.
b. Because the body is in the way, you can't really take the measurements at the best locations, which would be at the very front and rear of the tire, so you have to measure at the highest point you can get to, on both front and rear, without contacting the body. (This is all done with all four wheels sitting normally on the ground, BTW.)
c. You have to guesstimate a little here. Basically I try to get front and rear measurements that are within 1/8" or less; i.e. if the front measurement is 48", then the rear should be no more than 48 1/8". The front should be smaller or equal to the rear, not larger. This is how I set my toe-in.
d. Finally, adjust the appropriate tie rod to get the measurement you want.

Any reader (especially Charlie), please comment on this procedure, esp. as to the best degree of toe-in; and what is best for normal DD, vs. Charlie humiliating Porsches etc. on the track.

[Flyin4stroke]

On replacing tie rod ends lower control arm and ball joints on the Aspire-??

1. Where does one go to get the hub bearings pressed in, and have confidence they know what they are doing?

You shouldn't have to press aspire hubs

[harpon]

I adjusted the alignment on the narrow 145 width tires on the old 88 Festiva by the tire wear and sight alone and it worked really pretty well, ending the uneven wear-a dozen or more years ago

Those tires were $15 apiece then

I drove it this morning- it didn't do anything cold- no noises at all, but when I got to Starbucks three miles away, it was making the clunking noises- turning or shifting has no effect on it.

Think I'll go out there and try to get a look at some of the bushings if there are no ants. When someone deflated my tire last week, I backed it back in when I started out and
jacked it up to get the wheel off- it was right on top of a damn ant colony in my front yard and I was getting bit at the same time all at once around my ankles- NOT fun fun fun!

[TominMO]

2. Front end alignment is easy/kwik/free. It's easier with a friend to hold the other end of the tape measure, but even that is not critical. What I did is buy a yardstick and attach a long-enough piece of 1x2 (I think) to it so that it would reach the whole width of the outer tread of both front tires. On the end of the 1x2 I attached a small 90-degree bracket, so it would fit into a tire groove and hold.

One pic, thousand words, blah blah. Looks like about 1/2" X 2".

[WmWatt]

Diagnosing front end noises is a challenge. For bearings grab the top of the tire and push and pull to see if there's any play. Any movement indicates loose, most likely worn, bearings. If you can put a long steel bar under the tire when jacked up *and on stands* and lever it up and down it might show shock abosorber noise, could be loose or worn shocks. Trying to start, stop, & rock the car with a foot on the gas and a foot on the brake can show noises from the sway bar bushings or the motor mounts (front to back motion) Swaying the car right to left while driving can show some kind of noise but I forget what. Grap the send of the steering rod and see if the tie rod ball joints are worn loose. A mechanic will put the car up on a host and shake things by hand and with a pry bar looking for loose parts. If you can jack up the car and get under it you can check all exposed nuts and bolts for tightness. I've found a loose pich bolt on the control arm and loose bolts on a brake rotor. both jobs I had done myself and not tightened to spec. You can watch Youtube videos on diagnosing front end noise. I did when I was trying to pinpoint some noise last year and found them helpful in eliminating a bunch of possible causes. Good luck. Oh yeah, check the lug nuts for tightness. I had a friend get her car towed to a shop only to find she hadn't tightned them enough and they'd come a bit loose.

[harpon]

I've pushed and pulled the top of the well- no play there-
I went out earlier and tried to move the sway bar- it seems tight with that slight pressure at least- the front bushings are cracked and dry looking but not severely disintegrated-
Probably try to get that done too.
I sprayed everything I could with Armor All, as I've done for decades once a year or so.

Going to check the lug tightness now- I did have the wheel off- and always had the A/C going until just now so I don't know if the noise arose at that time or not.

P.S. WOW- I thought I did a final tightning of the lugs- but now not sure I did- because all the nuts were a bit loose and I got a partial turn on them all- so you may be right and that might be all or part of the problem- thanks! and a word to the wise......