1990 Festiva doesn't start consistently and stalls while driving slow occasionally

[SLW in Oregon]

I have a 1990 Festiva manual 5-speed. Had it for 10+ years. Runs well, when it starts. It doesn't always start on the first try anymore (for about a year or so). Sometimes I have to try 6-8 times before it stays running. I'm not meaning that it cranks over and over, like it's out of gas. I mean that it turns over, sounds like it engages on first try, I let up on the key/ignition, and it doesn't keep running. I do this several times, and eventually (so far) it fires up and runs - totally normal. It does this whether the engine is cold or hot. I drove 300+ plus miles last weekend, up and down hills, and except for the starting problem, there was never any hesitation while accelerating. It idles good. Runs smooth. BUT, last week it stalled in the middle of driving - I was going about 15-20 mph and slowing down around a corner. It just quit. I coasted to a stop, popped the hood thinking I would see the distributor cap popped off or something. Nothing obvious. Tried the ignition, it started, and I drove home. That night I checked around the engine and found a loose spark plug and wire. Some of the wires were in bad shape, so I replaced all wires and plugs, (new rotor and dist cap last year) but I really didn't think that was causing the starting or stalling problem - it never ran rough like it was running on only three cylinders. Anyway, after replacing the plugs and wires, it still has the starting problem, and it stalled again yesterday in a parking lot as I was approaching the driveway to go onto the street. Both times it stalled I was driving slowly, and I THINK both times I had just pushed the clutch in to either downshift or stop. Even though it doesn't act like it's not getting enough gas (running rough on acceleration, sputtering, etc.), I was going to replace the fuel filter today. I did some web searching and found references to bad Mass Air Flow Sensor, fuel and oxygen sensor, Air Flow Meter, vacuum leak, etc. These were posted on forums because the car was frequently stalling while driving. My main problem is that it's not starting easily (though so far I've always gotten it started eventually), and then (now) occasionally stalling. Any suggestions? Thanks much.

[tooldude]

Check basics such as air filter/intake not clogged, fuel pressure is correct, timing not retarded, spark is strong, compression not low.

[Studebaker]

Like tooldude said. Check compression. Replace worn parts ie fuel filter, o2 senser. Head gasket in good shape? In general make sure engine is in good shape.

Otherwise you may have to put up with problem till the part fails completely.

[william]

If you keep you foot on the Gas do it stay running? Sounds like the iac isn't opening for a cold start.

[SLW in Oregon]

William, no, if I apply gas when trying to start, it doesn't help at all.

[SLW in Oregon]

Okay, maybe made progress today. Took 8 times trying to start this morning. When it finally started, I put it in reverse, and it died before I starting moving. Started it again, put it in reverse, died again. Did it a third time. Fourth time, I put it in first, first, then reverse, and all was fine. Drove to town (10 miles), stopped. 15 minutes later tried to start it, took 5 tries. Made another stop, 15 minutes, took three tries to start. Began to drive home, it stalled. Coasted into a gas station, started it (took 8 tries), drove another 1/2 mile, stalled again. Did it one more time, and I was able to start it and got it into an auto repair garage. We are guessing it might be the ignition. First hint: For the 10 years I've had the car, I have had to back off the key a bit, after starting, in order for the wiper blades and heater fan to work. Got so used to doing that, never thought of it being a "problem". Second hint. When the car stalls, I notice the turn signals don't work, though the radio and clock are still on. Again, we're thinking ignition. The garage called around and can't find a replacement. They even called the Ford dealership. I stopped by Napa on my way home and they did some cross-referencing and came up with an ignition switch that they think might work. I didn't buy it, wanted to check with all y'all to see which ones are interchangeable with my 1990 Festiva. I will look on the forums to see if there is a particular thread just for finding parts. In the meantime, thanks for your info and suggestions.

[ryanprins13]

When it stalls does your check engine and oil pressure light come on?


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[SLW in Oregon]

ryanprins13, No, I don't think those lights come on, but not 100% sure. Right now it's sitting at a repair garage. I'm going to try to get it started and drive it to my house. I located an ignition cylinder key assembly at a wrecking yard in Pasco WA, also one on Ebay, but I want to get the car home so I can look and play with it a bit before I order something that might not be needed. I was told there is a fuse between the ignition switch and the main assembly. Also mentioned was a loose actuator rod. I've been on the computer and phone for 6 hours - better my time than $110/hour at a garage! Anyway, if I can get it started and if I make it home, I'll pay more attention to what lights are on and off when it stops.

[ryanprins13]

If those lights do not come one when you stall it means you have no power from the ignition. So the problem would be from the key cylinder back. Most likely the key cylinder but maybe a loose/breaking wire powering the ignition. There is a wire underneath the battery tray that brings power to the ignition. I believe its white. Mine corroded through and snapped causing loss of power to ignition while i was driving. Yours may be loose.
Drive the car. When it stalls check for power coming to ignition. If theres power its the cylinder, but to make sure check if theres power leaving the cylinder. If not ten its the cylinder. If theres no power to the ignition start following wires back.


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[SLW in Oregon]

Thank you, ryanprins. I just drove it home. It started first crank, and never stalled. I will keep testing, will also pay attention to the next time it doesn't start, to see what lights are or aren't on. I so appreciate your reply and info. I'll post when I find out what it is.

[SLW in Oregon]

Just a quick update. I've been driving the car. Stills stalls occasionally when driving (never when driving at a sustained speed, just when slowing down or in lower speed). Also stalls occasionally when shifting into reverse when I first start it up in the morning, stalled once when I turned on the turn signal. Still takes several times to start, sometimes. Lights: when it stalls, all dash indicator lights are out. Wipers, radio, clock, heater fan still work, and engine fan is running. Turn signal doesn't work. If I "tweek" the ignition key slightly back (counter-clockwise, as if to shut it off) the dash lights come on, turn signal works, engine fan stops. (FYI - This is different from what it used to do where the wipers and heater fan wouldn't work unless I tweeked the key - I haven't had THAT problem lately...) I was just playing with it, tried to start it, it died as soon as I let up on the key; dash lights off, turn signal not working (everything else working); I backed off the key until the dash lights came back on (key was still in "run" position), then switched the turn signal lever - the dash lights died again (I wasn't actually trying to start the car, I was just moving the ignition/key a bit). Tweeked the key again until the dash lights came back on, tried the turn signal again, and it worked. I would conclude as you first suggested - "Most likely the key cylinder ...." What do you think? Thanks in advance.

[ryanprins13]

Sounds like the cylinder. Is there a bit of play in each position or is it fairly tight? First thing to check before replacing that though is take the steering column covers off and there is a plastic connecter that all the wires go to the cylinder. I think it removes with a screw. There is contact points on it for the different key positions. Check if they are worn, have a lot of grease on them, maybe they are burnt...
Unless they are burnt or severely corroded Clean them, use di-electric grease on it and re-install and see what happens.


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[harpon]

Sounds to me like the stalling and cranking w/o start could be an air leak- maybe a crack in the intake tube after the MAF or a vacuum line with a crack or disconnected. So check that carefully- if it's cracked you can tape it and order another stock or aftermarket. Lots of them on ebay.

Also make sure the FUSSY-BLE links are making good contact- I had one that shut me periodically before replacing with cartridge fuse.

Also the plug wires- hearing any little "ticks" out of the motor area?. They can wear and start arcing between themselves even if not cracked, or if not making contact can cause that stalling or hard start. If you look under the hood in really dark conditions, you can see them arcing and/or the current coursing through them. pretty neat.

You can check the plugs tip appearances for any firing inconsistencies. Checking the plug look very big with motorized bicycles!
good luck.


my first car- 49 Willys Overland wagon 1970

[SLW in Oregon]

Ryanprins, thanks for your prompt reply. There isn't much play - key positions are fairly tight. I have saved "Movin's"s post from 9/14/2014 with detailed photos and instructions for pulling and cleaning the contacts. Here is that link: http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...gnition+switch

I'm not sure if this is what mine will look like, and I have been trying to get brave enough to dig in to find out. But at least I am confident that that's the problem. If I determine that it needs to be replaced, would I have to locate a used one off of a Festiva, or is there one from, say, a Kia or Mazda that would work? Mine is a 1990 5-speed. I've searched all over online and find very little "real" information. Thanks again.

[Sid_RallyX_82]

Ignition switch would be my first suspect. If you have the means to do so, you can rig up the system with just the wires. Eliminate the switch and note if the symptoms change