Blue Smoke questions

[fezzy]

In April I bought a bargain 1998 Festiva, 5 spd, 4 door, I'm, the 3rd owner and I intend to keep this car.
The car was bought from interstate, drove it back on 48 hour permit, ( Point A to Point B 1000kms )
Got home with no problem what so ever, some wheel bearing noises,CV Joints, the usual stuff for a car that has 298,000 Kilometers on the clock. I expected worse, but this car has good maintenance history, all books and records. Hey, for $400.00 + $120 to get there, + $150.00 to get back, say about $700.00 for a car that is selling around the $1,600 to $2,200 in similar condition.
So far the car has cost me in total about $1,000.00, and it is yet to be inspected for registration.
Our laws say there is no requirement to do a full inspection when registering a car from another state. Just walk in the inspection place, they do a engine number check, all they want to know if it's been stolen and a general check of the vehicle. IF, there are obvious problems, then the inspector may decide to get it fully inspected and this where the problems start. There are no obvious signs of "issues" with this car.

However,
Each day I start it up, has new oil, full tank of fresh fuel, warm it up till the fan kicks in then turn it off, just to keep the car oiled till I am ready to have it registered and driven on the road as a daily car.

It blows blue smoke when I start the car, some times but not always. But it is there.
The problem is, when I take it to be inspected for registration, if it blows smoke there and then, the inspector may not pass it. So I need to solve this somehow.
Here's the catch, it has done 298,000 kilometers. It is probably due for valve stem seals, but at that mileage, may as well drop the sump and do rings and bearings ??

Also, who ever worked on the car before, strip the thread on number 1 spark plug. That spark plug will not unscrew unless I use a breaker bar, it is that tight. So I am thinking the head has to come off anyway.

I have no problem fixing this, have done motor work before since day dot, not shy of spanners and screwdrivers.
But I have never done the 1.5 litre Festiva, this will be a first. I know the valve stem seals can be changed without taking the head off, but I have no small compressor to use the special tool. But as mentioned, the head has to come off because of that No 1 spark plug thread issue.

Opinions, Suggestions, whatever most welcome.

My gut feeling is to do it right and strip the engine, do the head, rings and bearings ??

Thanks in advance

[Greywolf]

G'day, M8!

I think your gut instinct is dead on target. It's burning oil on start up now - but what happens in a while when it gets worse, as it surely will? Then also if you want it to fly through inspection with no worries (aside from the notion that if the rings are like that God knows what the bearings are like...) a smart bloke lifts the lid before it runs and is legal simply because you will want to run it once 'tis - and may put off doing what is necessary...

*The above has been translated from "YANK" into "OZZY" :thumbup:

My experience with both old and new engines is that by the time the cylinder bores get like that - the bearings are stripped of all their babbit material, right down to the brass. If you catch it RIGHT NOW you may have it last for at least another 300,000 with few problems. But if the bearings ARE stripped and you run it, the price goes up as the crank journals are worn down...

Another note: If you do the rings and bearings, save your receipts for the parts so that it shows you have put a new set of rings into it. Newly redone rings take a while to wear into the bore, and until they do are prone to smoke a little bit. You can shorten the break in period and help them to seat by using a non-synthetic oil with no additives, and start & warm it up once in the morning, then once in the evening for a few days in a row. After a week of this drain the oil and swap the filter - it will have cleaned the engine of anything left in it from the rebuild process.

If you have any option to do it, put about 750 km of no-load running on it at an average of about 85 - 90 KPH (freeway speeds). Above all don't do any burnies with it!

You want the new rings to sweep the cylinders until they are polished to them

* I don't know if it is from modern metallurgy, use of additives like "PROLONG", or what exactly. But I have noticed a few engines I have redone in the past had no cylinder upper ridge at all in them, but when I pulled the bearing inserts out to look at them they were all the way down to the brass. So don't take the lack of a "Ring Ridge" as evidence that the engine doesn't need to be taken down. We already know it has 300,000 on the clock, and that's good enough reason to renew everything.

[TominMO]

Many people use the rope trick to keep the valve from falling when doing the stem seal. Fish rope into the cylinder thru the spark plug hole, so the valve has nowhere to go when you remove the spring keepers. (Leave some rope sticking out!)

But since you are planning to pull the head anyway to fix the spark plug threads.....At last do the full head. And if you have the time for it to be off the road for a few more days, the whole motor.

Do you know for sure whether it's valves or rings causing the smoke?

If the inspector sees the motor running when warmed up, he may not ever notice the smoke, which is apparently only at cold startup, right?

[Greywolf]

Do they use an exhaust analyzer in the inspection stations? If they do, it may be impossible to mask.

Given the choice between a trouble free machine from the beginning, and having the full "Micro-Proctoscope" inspection done on the whole car - if you don't absolutely have to have the car running right away I side with taking your time setting it up well right from the start.

[fezzy]

G'Day, GW, yes you will do OK with the accent. Been to US of A twice ages ago btw, NY, to Mi to Maine and then Canada on a bus n a few hitched rides. Survived doing oil changes n spark plugs, and lawn mowings along the way. lol
too easy.


Well yeah it's gonna have to be that way and will check everything as I go, can take pictures now and if any questions or signs of excessive wear when the journals come off, we'll see when cross that bridge.
There is absolutely no hurry, have the other Festiva to get around in the mean time, ( 1.3 auto, runs like charm for now).

I want to use top quality rings and bearings, may not be able to buy genuine here anymore, will check, so after market brand names would be appreciated. I don't want low quality shite from we know where !

Do they use an exhaust analyzer in the inspection stations? If they do, it may be impossible to mask.

Only on Mondays !!, yes and no, to do the registration check there is no exhaust checks or mechanical checks. He does use some sort of laser light beam, not sure if to see if the body is straight, or to check if the tint on the windows is excessive. They got my daughters car for excessive tint. This was a random alcohol test on side of road. She does not drink ever. Anyway, her car was "too low" and defected the car there and then. She took it to the inspection place, was not passed. Window tint, oil leaks and some other BS. This was 2 years ago, still off the road cos it is no longer a priority.
So yeah, they can get ya if they want to.

----,

TominMO
Many people use the rope trick to keep the valve from falling when doing the stem seal. Fish rope into the cylinder thru the spark plug hole, so the valve has nowhere to go when you remove the spring keepers. (Leave some rope sticking out!)

Just to clarify, you fill the entire cylinder with fish rope nearly at TDC, then turn to TDC to tighten up a bit ?

Do you know for sure whether it's valves or rings causing the smoke?

It lessens when it warms up, rev it and of course lots of water condensation gets blown out, when it is operating temp it is not as pronounced, in fact hardly any.
I may start it the next day, it may not blow as much as the day before, but the following day it can.
Same thing, when it warms up it ain't as pronounced. Oil is Valvoline 20W-50 XLD Premium

If the inspector sees the motor running when warmed up, he may not ever notice the smoke, which is apparently only at cold startup, right?

Yeah, that's the gamble, will it clear up by the time I get there on a 24 hour permit. It's only 6 miles away from where the car is. The permit only allows me to drive it there A to B and back, or if it's passed I go pay for the full registration and get issued the number plates. If not passed, then I fix the motor, it is that next inspection where they go through it with exhaust checks and what ever else they may find.
The cost for an inspection is initially in the hundreds, then pay again a smaller amount for every inspection there after, by appointment only....State revenue !
See what I mean, I am trying to avoid getting shafted
------,

[ryanprins13]

Blue Smoke questions

Could likely be the valve stem seals. If a ring is just stuck maybe do some 5w20 and aft plus seafoam for 20 minutes to see if you can loosen it. The oil you have is super thick... Once its hot maybe do a compression test on 3 cylinders to see what you have?
The catalytic converter could be full of smoke/dust and thats whats blowing out. I blew out 2 the other week and it took me 1/2 hr each almost, couldn't believe how much was in there?
I would try and free up any rings/ carbon, blow out the cat and take it to the inspection place warm to see if it will pass. If it passes then drive it for a month or so to figure out what you have got, then decide what work to do. If it fails then you were going to tear into it anyway. Just a suggestion


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[fezzy]

I can get a one day permit, go for a tank-full-of-fuel run, and see what happens. Probably pointless considering 300K motor. But curious all the same.

Prefer thicker oil cos weather can get hot here.

[WmWatt]

A vacuum guage and compression tester will provide more information if you want to know more about the engine before taking it apart. If you're going to take it apart anyway they're probably a waste of time, but not much time as they are easy to do.

[fezzy]

WmWatt
A vacuum guage and compression tester will provide more information if you want to know more about the engine before taking it apart. If you're going to take it apart anyway they're probably a waste of time, but not much time as they are easy to do.

Thanks

I agree with that suggestion, out of curiosity it be good to know. Once had the tools to do comp. test and vac, unless I need to I'll buy them again.

[TominMO]

"Just to clarify, you fill the entire cylinder with fish rope nearly at TDC, then turn to TDC to tighten up a bit?"

Correct.

[lessersivad]

"Just to clarify, you fill the entire cylinder with fish rope nearly at TDC, then turn to TDC to tighten up a bit ?"

Any rope that will fit thru the spark plug hole.

When Tom said "fish rope into the cylinder" he meant 'to install', or feed the rope thru the spark plug hole into the cylinder.

You got the idea, just doesn't need to be 'fish' rope.

[TominMO]

"Just to clarify, you fill the entire cylinder with fish rope nearly at TDC, then turn to TDC to tighten up a bit ?"

Any rope that will fit thru the spark plug hole.

When Tom said "fish rope into the cylinder" he meant 'to install', or feed the rope thru the spark plug hole into the cylinder.

You got the idea, just doesn't need to be 'fish' rope.

Thanks for the clarification. I don't even know what "fish rope" would be, unless it was rope made out of fish skins.....:-) A plastic rope would be good because it doesn't have any fibers coming off it.

USA and Oz: two countries divided by a common language......

[fezzy]

Yeah I got the idea, surveyors string ! ??

http://www.surveysupplyinc.com/Braided-Mason-Twine/

[TominMO]

Yeah I got the idea, surveyors string ! ??

http://www.surveysupplyinc.com/Braided-Mason-Twine/

That string looks pretty thin; hard to push and you need a lot of it to fill up the cylinder top. You need something like a thin plastic rope like this that will fit into the spark plug hole.

[fezzy]

Thanks Tom


I'm trying to upload a MP4 video showing a cold start, lots and lots of smoke this time.
But up-loader says file is too large @ 106,023kb