My festiva keeps dying

[Nkerguelean]

Not to long ago I posted on here about my 1989 festiva wouldn't start and with the help of all of you
We got it running again. I put a wire in a plug under the windshield wiper motor and that got the fuel
Pump to work. It ran pretty good for awhile. But then it would just die while I'm driving down the road.
It would start back up as soon as I pulled over and try to start it. But it kept doing it more often. And now it dosnt wanna start.

[1990new]

Not to long ago I posted on here about my 1989 festiva wouldn't start and with the help of all of you
We got it running again. I put a wire in a plug under the windshield wiper motor and that got the fuel
Pump to work. It ran pretty good for awhile. But then it would just die while I'm driving down the road.
It would start back up as soon as I pulled over and try to start it. But it kept doing it more often. And now it dosnt wanna start.

Have you left the jumper wire in place the entire time from when you first tried it?
Let me explain what you are doing when you put the jumper wire on that connector.
Two power sources provide power to the fuel pump relay to trigger it to turn the fuel pump on.
1 The first power is supplied to one leg of the fuel relay which has a hard ground when you turn your ignition to the start position.
This causes the relay to switch on the power to the fuel pump and the pump keeps running until you release the key back to the on position.
As soon as the engine starts and you release the key back to the "on" position power is not longer supplied to the relay and the pump stops.

2. Another leg on the fuel relay receives power when the switch is in the on position but it does not have a constant ground. The ground for this leg is triggered by the VAF when it senses air flowing through it. So after the engine starts and air is flowing through the VAF, the fuel pump relay should keep the power on to the fuel pump. (If you have ever accidentally left your vaf connector off you would notice this because the car would start and run maybe 5 seconds and then shut off because the fuel pump quit running).

What you did when you put the jumper wire on the connector was to supply a constant ground to the fuel pump relay for the leg that would only be supplied a ground when the vaf sensed air flowing. So in effect the fuel pump would continually remain running as long as the ignition switch is on if the battery is not dead and the relay is not bad and the fuel pump is not bad and there is not a wire connection problem somewhere.

By leaving the jumper on you are overriding a safety feature which automatically shuts off the fuel pump when the engine dies with the switch on. So your really should not be driving around with that jumper on. It is supposed to be only used for testing. If the signal from the vaf is not coming or the vaf ground is bad, that should be fixed instead or relying on the test jumper to trigger the pump to keep running.

Lots of weird problem pop up when ground connection start to get corroded. Not saying this is necessarily your problem now but it could be.

So my first question is: do you hear the fuel pump running when you turn on the switch?

[bravekozak]

I circumvented the VAF by installing a solid state Revolution electric fuel pump controller that continually checks for a tach pulse to ensure that the engine is running. Otherwise, it would cut power to the pump.
No problemo.

[Nkerguelean]

With that jumper wire in there I would hear the fuel pump running. But when I took it out it wouldn't kick on

[1990new]

With that jumper wire in there I would hear the fuel pump running. But when I took it out it wouldn't kick on

Do you hear it now when you turn the switch on with the jumper wire in, or did the pump stop completely?

[Nkerguelean]

With the wire in there the pump with turn on. When it's not in there it won't turn on.

[FestYboy]

Have you checked for spark yet? Have you cleaned the EGI terminals? Is there power to the injectors? Is there fuel pressure? ( Don't matter if the pump runs if it can't generate system pressure).

[1990new]

As FestYboy says, even though the fuel pump may be running you still don't know if you have pressurized fuel at the fuel rail.
Here is how to check.
1. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby. Too many people have burned up their Festivas.
2. Turn off your ignition and remove the battery ground.
3. Place some rags under the area where you will be removing the fuel line at the fuel rail.
4. Use pliers to release the hole clamp and move it back a couple of inches on the hose.
5. Use pliers to grip the hose with enought force to twist it but not to much, you don't want to crush it.
6. After you are able to turn the hose twist it back and forth as you pull it back off the rail (careful not to bent the fuel rail line).

When the hose is remove if your pressurized fuel is realeased, your have most likely determined that you have a new problem other than fuel supply.

I tried to find a picture to show which hose to remove from the rail but this one shows which hose not to remove.
The fuel connection you see at the bottom here is the pressure relief valve line which releases excess fuel pressure back to the tank. Do not remove this one.
[IMG][/IMG]

It's the other one that goes to the fuel rail the you need to remove.

[Nkerguelean]

I checked it when I first started working on it a few weeks ago. I have spark and Fuel pressure.

[1990new]

I checked it when I first started working on it a few weeks ago. I have spark and Fuel pressure.

Yes, but from your first post in this thread you say that it would start, run a while and then die at times, then start again but now it will not start at all. It seems that your original problem got worse or you have a new problem as well as the fact that your original problem was never totally solved. Some things to thing about: Your fuel pump screen that is on the fuel pump in the fuel tank was beginning to get clogged and is now totally clogged and will not allow the pump to pick up fuel. Your fuel filter was beginning to get clogged and now it is totally clogged.

So even though you had fuel pressure when you checked it a while ago, you may not have now. In any case you still have a problem with the fuel pump relay wire connection because your pump will not run unless it is test jumped. What is the rust situation like on your car. Rust frequently build up around ground wire connection and could be causing problems. If you have rust, as a first step, If I were you I would remove as many ground connects as you can get to and use a wire brush or dremel tool to clean up the rust and make sure you have good contact at all the grounds.
Your problem could be something totally different now. If you do have fuel pressure and spark now, I would then suspect a timing problem:
distributor problem (icm maybe), timing belt slip, wallowed out keyway on your timing gear....among other things. If it's the original 89 engine you have the small nose crank.

[Nkerguelean]

I put in a new fuel filter and a new fuel pump. I cleaned all the grounds in the engine bay today. They weren't that bad but I cleaned them anyway. One of my friend said I might have a distributor problem and in gonna look at that right now while my battery is charging. This car is frustrating

[1990new]

Most of the members on the forum have been as frustrated as you are, so don't blame the car. Forum members have different levels of automotive knowledge and experience. The more problems you discover and solve, the easier it gets the next time. When a new member
joins and asks questions, we don't know anything about that member or their Festiva. We only know what we are told about a problem. The less we are told the more assumptions we tend to make...and the more assumptions we make the more often we get led astray.
I'm not a master mechanic, Festivas are a hobby for me. I enjoy working on them and I am happy to help other people try to solve problems with their Festiva if I can.
So tell us a little about yourself and your Festiva. It helps if you put the year, make and model in the signature section.
Is it the original engine?, how long have you owned it? how many miles on it?, what work has been done on it recently?, new parts added recently? What is your level of automotive mechanical experience? Maybe you have already been doing it, but if you haven't use the search feature to look up stuff. If you don't have one yet, buy a Festiva shop service manual. There are lots of them available for less than $10 on ebay. Many member join just to try to find a quick fix, can't find it, end up selling or junking their Festiva and disappear. We don't want you to do that.
I do hope you do find a solution to your problem and I and other member will try to help you as best we can.

[WmWatt]

Intermittent stalling is a symptom of a failing ignition control module. It's inside the distributor. As the engine heats up it and it's weak it can fail. Sometimes you have to wait for the engine to cool before it will start again. Intermittent stalling can also be a symptom of a failing igntion coil. The coil is chaper to replace so if they're both getting old I'd try the coil first if you think one of them is causing the problem.

[1990new]

If it is a distributor or ICM problem, don't get sticker shock when you see the price of the 89 ATX FI Distributor and ICM.
I have an 89 ATX with fuel injection and that oddball distributor too and I have been trying to locate one
to pull at the junk yard as a backup for a couple of year now. The are mighty scarce.
FourGreen still has the new complete distributors listed for $242.14 plus shipping, but I'm not sure they still have them.

If you have confirmed that your fuel rail is indeed charged with fuel and that is not your problem then
the distributor/ICM is a next logical step, but you should not buy one until you know for sure. Those ridiculously price ICM are something that are hard to return for a refund. A complete distributor may be the same way.
I think some places have a way to test the ICM's but don't really know much about it.

[jawja jim]

I have been having a similar problem with the 89 auto dying. It is very sporadic and may not happen for 2-3 months, then do it 2,3,4 times over a couple of days, then not again for another while. I just put a tach in that car and this last time I noticed that when it died, the tach fell to zero like a rock. When trying to restart, there was no movement of the tach. I did several short 2-3 second cranks and as I let off the key, the tach moved. It then cranked and has had no further failures for 5-6 days now. It has a brand new "NOS" distributor with new ICM. I changed dizzy thinking it would solve it, but apparently didn't.