92 Festiva Slow Start / No Start

[firebush357]

I'm with Festyboy on this one... Sounds like you have a gremlin inside your electrical system somewhere. That might point back to what I said originally about your car having some kind of draw on the battery while it sits and that is why it was always cranking slowly.

[firebush357]

I would say meet with William and get another VAF to see if that solves the problem just to rule that out since finding shorts are not the easiest thing to do if you are not trained for it.

[1990new]

Because of my personal experience, I'm going to throw another possibility into the mix here just in case.
Can you please post the build date of your 1992? In early 1992 the small/short snout crank engine was replaced with the big/long snout crank engine (anyone know the exact month and last 1992 vin of the short nose?). At 244K, I had to replace the engine in my original 1990 when the crank keyway wallowed out too much. iirc before it finally quit, it was getting harder and harder to start because the timing was getting worse and worse. The sound of your engine starting in the video brought back memories of how my 1990 was sounding just before it died completely.
Do you know which crank snout is in your Festiva? Also it would help if you post the specs of your festiva in your signature so we could see them in everyone could see them in every post.

[Timothy]

I do not know which snout I have. Is this something I can find out through a visual inspection?

It looks like my build date was 4/11/1992.FullSizeRender copy 2.jpg

[1990new]

I do not know which snout I have. Is this something I can find out through a visual inspection?

It looks like my build date was 4/11/1992.[ATTACH=CONFIG]20307[/ATTACH]

I believe the cut off for the small crank snout was around the end of January 1992, so you definitely have the large snout.
The wallowed out keyway is not likely a problem for you. My 92 (Rosie) has a build date of 12/23/1991 so she had the small
crank snout and it's also the small one in the new short block engine that I installed in her earlier this year.

Good luck with finding and fixing your problem. Have you had spark at the plugs since it died the last time after you replaced the coil? The VAF problems usually relate to fuel supply to the injectors. I assume that you hear the fuel pump working when you turn your igintion to the start position..correct? If you engine starts with an unplugged vaf, it will die in a few seconds because the fuel pump relay will not be getting a signal to keep running. The relay is tripped to send power to the pump while the ignition is in the start position but loses it when the ignition is released to the on position. If you are getting a spark at the plugs at the correct time, getting fuel to the injectors at the correct time would be the next thing to check.

[Timothy]

I believe the cut off for the small crank snout was around the end of January 1992, so you definitely have the large snout.
The wallowed out keyway is not likely a problem for you. My 92 (Rosie) has a build date of 12/23/1991 so she had the small
crank snout and it's also the small one in the new short block engine that I installed in her earlier this year.

Good luck with finding and fixing your problem. Have you had spark at the plugs since it died the last time after you replaced the coil? The VAF problems usually relate to fuel supply to the injectors. I assume that you hear the fuel pump working when you turn your igintion to the start position..correct? If you engine starts with an unplugged vaf, it will die in a few seconds because the fuel pump relay will not be getting a signal to keep running. The relay is tripped to send power to the pump while the ignition is in the start position but loses it when the ignition is released to the on position. If you are getting a spark at the plugs at the correct time, getting fuel to the injectors at the correct time would be the next thing to check.

After I unplug vaf the engine will idle indefinitely. Also at this point I think I have verified that it is a no spark condition.

Do I hear the fuel pump prime: no. I know fuel is a big requirement when troubleshooting a no start but here are some things that make me think fuel is not the problem. if I spray starter fluid in the air intake (with the sensor attached) it will not start leading me to believe that fuel is not the issue. Is there a shader valve I can depress iunder the hood to see if gas comes out under pressure.

With VAF attached no spark comes out of coil and it does not start. I unglued VAF and spark comes out of the coil and the car starts and idles indefinitely.

Thank you fOr your continued help.

[1990new]

I just read back through all the thread posts and I am as confused as everyone else about you not getting a spark when the vaf is plugged in but get one when it is unplugged.

About 20 years ago when I didn't know much about Festivas, I tried to remove the vaf wire by removing the two screws that hold the plug in... messed up the connectors inside the vaf and like to never got it fixed back. Had to take the black plastic over off to replace all the connectors that I had messed up inside. I did finally get it back together though and it is still working to this day. I've learned a little about vaf's since then. Caused all kinds of weird problems until I got all the connector points put back in right though.

Like FestYboy said, it seems like your BK/w wire from the ignition to the + side of the coil secondary winding is somehow being ground out when you connect the vaf plug. I've been looking at the EVT manual for the 92 and I really don't see how that could be unless maybe there is a short somewhere in the wiring harness that makes the Bk/w wire to the coil grounded when the vaf is connected. Since your engines still idles wit the vaf disconnected it also soulds like the fuel pump must still be running off the ignition start wire or did you jumper the fuel test connection?

The vaf's ground connection is located near the distributor and is attached to the head on the front of the engine. I think the bolt that attaches it may also attach the bracket that hold the accelerator cable. It has two black wires attached to a brass attaching ring.
If you haven't done so yet, remove the bolt and use a wire brush to clean the connection there thoroughly.

There is no valve that will allow you to check for fuel pressure at the fuel rail..but if it will idle your fuel rail is charged.

The reason you cannot accelerate when the vaf is disconnected is because no air flow signal is getting to he computer to tell the injectors to open up to spray more fuel into the combustion chamber.

If william is bringing you a known working vaf to try out.. that's good. I have 3 extra working vaf's and I'm sure many other member have extras too that that will likely be willing to sell for less than $50 shipped if it turns out to be the vaf and william's is not a spare that he will sell you.

[Timothy]

I feel like an idiot. I replaced 10 amp fuse for engine in the fuse box and my car is now running. The

[FestYboy]

It was blown?

[dalebwilson]

I didn't think the engine would run at all if the ENGINE fuse was blown.


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[1990new]

I feel like an idiot. I replaced 10 amp fuse for engine in the fuse box and my car is now running. The

I dont see where that bk/w wire to the coil goes through the engine fuse but it does go through that fuse to the main relay and on to about every other engine function including the vaf.
I'm still confused about you not getting a spark at the coil with the vaf plugged in.
Remember in the future fuses are the first thing to check for... however the reason for that fuse blowing may still exist, so keep a careful eye on it.

Seems to be a lot of confusion in the diagnostics in this thread. With so many things going on and all the parts being switched out, it's easy to get confused though. I still suspect more than one problem. Hopefully all of them are corrected now though.

Hope you learned a lot Timothy. You seem eager to learn about the Festivas. Get thee to ebay and buy yourself a 1992 Ford Festiva shop manual and an EVT Troubles shooting manual. They are worth their weight in gold.

[william]

He sent me this dosnt look blown he said he was taking it for a drive and will multimeter it when he's back.
It dose loom a bit dirty tho

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[Timothy]

I just read back through all the thread posts and I am as confused as everyone else about you not getting a spark when the vaf is plugged in but get one when it is unplugged.

About 20 years ago when I didn't know much about Festivas, I tried to remove the vaf wire by removing the two screws that hold the plug in... messed up the connectors inside the vaf and like to never got it fixed back. Had to take the black plastic over off to replace all the connectors that I had messed up inside. I did finally get it back together though and it is still working to this day. I've learned a little about vaf's since then. Caused all kinds of weird problems until I got all the connector points put back in right though.

Like FestYboy said, it seems like your BK/w wire from the ignition to the + side of the coil secondary winding is somehow being ground out when you connect the vaf plug. I've been looking at the EVT manual for the 92 and I really don't see how that could be unless maybe there is a short somewhere in the wiring harness that makes the Bk/w wire to the coil grounded when the vaf is connected. Since your engines still idles wit the vaf disconnected it also soulds like the fuel pump must still be running off the ignition start wire or did you jumper the fuel test connection?

The vaf's ground connection is located near the distributor and is attached to the head on the front of the engine. I think the bolt that attaches it may also attach the bracket that hold the accelerator cable. It has two black wires attached to a brass attaching ring.
If you haven't done so yet, remove the bolt and use a wire brush to clean the connection there thoroughly.

There is no valve that will allow you to check for fuel pressure at the fuel rail..but if it will idle your fuel rail is charged.

The reason you cannot accelerate when the vaf is disconnected is because no air flow signal is getting to he computer to tell the injectors to open up to spray more fuel into the combustion chamber.

If william is bringing you a known working vaf to try out.. that's good. I have 3 extra working vaf's and I'm sure many other member have extras too that that will likely be willing to sell for less than $50 shipped if it turns out to be the vaf and william's is not a spare that he will sell you.

Thank you so much for the indepth answer. I'm going to have to check those ground points. Thank you for letting me know where they are.

[Green Bean]

Turn your motor over by hand an get your timing marks set where there supposed to be then unbolt your distributor cap and see if the rotor is pointing to number 1 cause the rotor can be installed in 3 different positions how i know is because thats what happened on green bean also make sure you have good clean metal where the icm bolts down to the metal bracket near the strut tower and if all that is good well then im not sure what it could be.

[Timothy]

Here is a video of how it starts up now. Maybe changing the fuse was an unrelated coincidence. If I have check the fuse correctly with the multimeter it is showing 001 when I do the continuity test.

Who knows. Another little tid bit of info. When I jiggle the wiring harness for the VAF the car will die. After I push it in nice and tight it will fire up again.