Festiva - Aspire Steering Rack Comparison

[TominMO]

Good comparison pic there, difrangia.

Another way to go about it would be to first thread on a die, then cut off 1/2" off the end of the Aspire tie rod that Detroit Axle supplied, then use the die to fix the threading on the end. If you already had the die and a cutoff wheel, it would be a free fix.

[difrangia]

TominMo,
I did consider that and I believe that I have a die.

In considering that, I'm gonna bt that the threads that are on the tie-rod are rollformed and not cut which produces a smoother and, in a sense, a forged thread.

I know that there is not so much stress on a stock Festy but If I were to cut the threads I'd never get it out of my mind that a die cut thread on a steering component like the tie-rod could develop a crack and fail at some point and if it were to happen to me, it'd probably be at speed.

I did have to dis-assemble and assemble it twice, but I can sleep well now; hopefully not behind the steering wheel !! LOL

[Dragonhealer]

TominMo,
I did consider that and I believe that I have a die.

In considering that, I'm gonna bt that the threads that are on the tie-rod are rollformed and not cut which produces a smoother and, in a sense, a forged thread.

I know that there is not so much stress on a stock Festy but If I were to cut the threads I'd never get it out of my mind that a die cut thread on a steering component like the tie-rod could develop a crack and fail at some point and if it were to happen to me, it'd probably be at speed.

I did have to dis-assemble and assemble it twice, but I can sleep well now; hopefully not behind the steering wheel !! LOL

Very well said Sir! It is also worth remembering the side rod is designed to be the first part to bend when overloaded (crash etc) and it's weakest part is where the thread ends!

[ryanprins13]

TominMo,
I did consider that and I believe that I have a die.

In considering that, I'm gonna bt that the threads that are on the tie-rod are rollformed and not cut which produces a smoother and, in a sense, a forged thread.

I know that there is not so much stress on a stock Festy but If I were to cut the threads I'd never get it out of my mind that a die cut thread on a steering component like the tie-rod could develop a crack and fail at some point and if it were to happen to me, it'd probably be at speed.

I did have to dis-assemble and assemble it twice, but I can sleep well now; hopefully not behind the steering wheel !! LOL

Very well said Sir! It is also worth remembering the side rod is designed to be the first part to bend when overloaded (crash etc) and it's weakest part is where the thread ends!

Thats so lame, lol. My festiva had 2 different length inner tie rods and i bought new festiva ones for my aspire swap but i think their actually the longer aspire ones. I have one longer and one shorter on now and when both are tightened all the way in it still looks like i have a bit of toe in. I was all ready to cut them both shorter and then had to read this... :/
How big of a deal is straightening the last millimeter of thread with a die after you cut it shorter? I would think that the heat from the actual cutting would affect it more than the cutting, but i dont really know. The outer end is threaded on there like 3/4 of an inch so how does the last mm of threads being straightened on the inner affect the strength?

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[difrangia]

I'm no school trained engineer but just common sense from being around machinery and manufacturing for half a century says the cut threads present sharply cut inside and outside corners that could begin to develop a crack over a life of constant change between compression and tension and factor in pot holes and speed-bumps which might result in a failure at just the wrong time.

The Festy is so lightly stressed that It might not be a problem to run a couple more threads on. I'd have to measure one of the rods, but it seems like the diameter inside the threads is a little bigger than the thread diameter, so it might need to be turned/ground down a little before running the die on in.

It would just kinda bother me thinking about the cut threads getting banged around.

The way it looks to me is that the Festiva tie-rods are 10 1/2" long from the end of the rack to the outer end where the tie-rod end screws on. The Aspire are 1/2" longer at 11".

[FestYboy]

Before you cut, screw on a nut and that will clean up the threads after the cut. Then take a file to the first third of a thread at the cut to knock it down.

[Dragonhealer]

If you are just shortening the threaded section because it bottoms out in the rod end, no problem. I thought it was suggested to die cut additional threads on the rod, creating a "tear along dotted line" scenario. Appoligies.

[difrangia]

Dragonslayer,
You sure got a way with words; you summed up what I was trying to say in one short sentence.

The problem with the longer rods (Aspire ??) was not enough threads. There would have been 'no problemo' with just cutting the end off if bottoming out had been the issue.

I got it all back together yesterday and was able to set toe-in to about 3/16" and it's ready to go to the line-up guy.

Thanks.

[ryanprins13]

If you are just shortening the threaded section because it bottoms out in the rod end, no problem. I thought it was suggested to die cut additional threads on the rod, creating a "tear along dotted line" scenario. Appoligies.

Dragonslayer,
You sure got a way with words; you summed up what I was trying to say in one short sentence.

The problem with the longer rods (Aspire ??) was not enough threads. There would have been 'no problemo' with just cutting the end off if bottoming out had been the issue.

I got it all back together yesterday and was able to set toe-in to about 3/16" and it's ready to go to the line-up guy.

Thanks.

Oh! Sorry for misunderstanding, i have way more threads than i need and thought yours was the same.

The way it looks to me is that the Festiva tie-rods are 10 1/2" long from the end of the rack to the outer end where the tie-rod end screws on. The Aspire are 1/2" longer at 11".

The length of the new outer tie rods from the undercut for the outer end of the bellows to the end of the tie rod is 7" which is 1/2" longer on each side than the Festy take-offs which results in the 1" longer new unit. Both the old and the new outer tie rods have 1 3/4" of threads.

Steve

Interesting. My new ones that are supposed to be for the festiva are in between those measurements :/
10 3/4 from end of rack to outer end.
6 3/4 bellows undercut to end.
2 3/4 inches of threads.

So i can assume that MAS tried to make a tie rod end that would fit both cars and it wont fit either properly?
I installed the one but not this second one. Looks like ill have to cut some off each end. The side i took off was exactly the same as this MAS one i put on but the other side looks shorter but i havent taken it off. Both inners are threaded in all the way.
Heres 2 photos of the new one, then 2 photos of whats on the car. Can anyone tell me if these are completely wrong or if its ok to just cut a bit off both ends? The aspire outers thread on...






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[Dragonhealer]

You might measure to make sure you are really bottoming out in the rod end and not hung up on rust or something.
Triming some off of the end is not a problem.

[skeeters_keeper]

If you actually run out of thread on the inboard side, you can use a thinner lock nut to gain another 1/8" of adjustment.

[TominMO]

How big of a deal is straightening the last millimeter of thread with a die after you cut it shorter? I would think that the heat from the actual cutting would affect it more than the cutting, but i dont really know. The outer end is threaded on there like 3/4 of an inch so how does the last mm of threads being straightened on the inner affect the strength?

What ryan has described is all I was talking about doing--cleaning up the end of the threads where the tie rod was cut. I can't imagine this having any issue with strength or safety.

[difrangia]

ryanprins13, That looks to measure very close to my rods that were too long. I'd bet that they wouldn't work on a Festy with Festy spindles.

The rods that I bought to switch out onto the rack assy. were 1/2" shorter and even had 1/4-3/8" more threads.

Cutting the outer end off would not cause a problem but I wouldn't cut any more threads on the rod to get the rod end to screw on further. Safety issues.

Narrowing the jamb nut and maybe trimming a bit off the inner end of the rod end wouldn't be a problem either, but I'd guess that you couldn't narrow/trim enough to make it work on my car.

[ryanprins13]

Thanks guys!

You might measure to make sure you are really bottoming out in the rod end and not hung up on rust or something.
Triming some off of the end is not a problem.

Ok, i will do that. The old side ran out of threads and the new side is brand new parts, but its also possible that the outer tie rod end wasnt threaded all the way inside.

ryanprins13, That looks to measure very close to my rods that were too long. I'd bet that they wouldn't work on a Festy with Festy spindles.

The rods that I bought to switch out onto the rack assy. were 1/2" shorter and even had 1/4-3/8" more threads.

Cutting the outer end off would not cause a problem but I wouldn't cut any more threads on the rod to get the rod end to screw on further. Safety issues.

Narrowing the jamb nut and maybe trimming a bit off the inner end of the rod end wouldn't be a problem either, but I'd guess that you couldn't narrow/trim enough to make it work on my car.

Ok, sounds good, i just put aspire knuckles on but im sure their the same.
I assume so but just to be sure lets say my outer tie rod end isnt threaded all the way, it would be bad to tap its threads deeper too right?



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[difrangia]

I probably wouldn't be afraid to tap the rod end deeper if there was more room at the bottom of the drilled hole but I wouldn't add die-cut threads to the rod.

Anybody else have an educated or not-educated opinion on this ??

Like I said earlier, I'm not a school trained engineer with training on stress/strength of materials; just basing my opinions on experience & common sense, if there is such a thing anymore.