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  • Sluggish and choking, on going fuel/air issue

    Ok, I have been diagnosing and replacing parts for two weeks, my mechanic and I are both stumped so I am going to try my best to explain the chain of events/problems here in this post. Hopefully someone else has ran into a similar issue and can help me narrow my problems down.

    Last Monday my car ran out of gas, after refilling my tank I began experiencing problems best described as loss of power/choking while accelerating. So I started by changing the fuel filter thinking that maybe it was clogged with sediment possibly sucked up from the depths of my 15 year old tank. The problem continued.

    Took it to a local shop and was told the fuel pump was bad. I had the pump replaced and the car seemed to be working like new. I put about 80 miles on the car that day and the next without even a hint of the problem remaining.

    Three days later im driving on the highway and my battery light comes on, I continue to drive the car for the remainder of the day, each trip noticing more and more what seemed to be the same choking issue.
    I was having before the pump replacement. Test the battery and it shows bad, it's under warranty so I exchanged it but the light stayed on when the new battery was installed. So I had the alternator tested and it was reading 12. Something. I replaced the alternator, the battery light turned off and the battery is getting charged now. That did nothing to resolve the fuel/air issue and the choking continued to worsen.

    The moment I knew the alternator was not causing this problem I took it back to the shop that had replaced the fuel pump two days earlier. They continued to diagnose the car for the rest of the day, explaining that the problem now must be with the MAF or Throttle position sensors but that they would not have an obd1 tester until the following morning. (During the time they were diagnosing they assured me they checked plugs, plug wires, d cap, rotor, timing, etc.)

    Fast forward to the next day, they run live data with the obd1 and determine it is indeed the MAF. So I order the part, they throw it on as soon as it got there that evening. Now the car will barely start and was still displaying the same symptoms only now amplified. The mechanic at this point put the old MAF back on and the car started right up and returned to its semi-drivable yet temperamental state. He tells me the new MAF is faulty and we must order another one. So they order the new one and the same thing happened when they installed it, so the new MAF didnt resolve the issue and it made the whole issue even worse.

    So they order another new fuel pump, install it and everything was fixed. It was driving like new. Just like the first time they replaced the pump. So I drove it over the next two days with no problems.

    Now This morning I head out for work, expecting no problems as it was running and driving great just yesterday, but on my drive I noticed a little hesitation, and then a little more. I decided to turn around and go home as I did not want to end up stranded. On my way home the problem worsened and at one point I was at a stop at the bottom of a hill giving it gas While it continued to sputter and choke out. I turned the car off and back on. After feathering the throttle a little I was able to get going again but the problem was for sure back again and the car was driving just like it was before the pump replacement. Choking during gear changes and around the 3500-4000 rpm when it's actually in gear and rolling.

    Completely stumped at this point I talked to another mechanic. He insisted I delete the catalytic converter and try it then, so I took It to a muffler shop, had them cut it out and replace it with straight tubing...
    This is when and where things get really frustrating to me. It's as if the problem has been resolved 90%... the car hesitates a little the first time I put it into gear, I feather the gas and drive it for a while and the problem almost completely goes away whereas before the more I drove it the worse it got. there is still a slight hesitation when I'm accelerating in the middle of the gear, but now it's just a little hesitation and isn't happening during the gear changes... if the problem was 100% resolved I would relax and just buy a new catalytic converter, but something is still off somewhere.

    I hope that I explained all this junk clear enough. i would be so grateful to hear some opinions from other festiva owners and experts. Thanks In advance.

  • #2
    EFI presumably, since you mention the MAF. Perhaps crappy Mexican gas? Clogged fuel injectors? Stick or auto?
    90 Festy (Larry)--B6M (Matt D. modified B6 head), header, 5-speed, Capri XR2 front brakes, many other little mods
    09 Kia Rondo--a Festy on steroids!

    You can avoid reality, but you can't avoid the consequences of avoiding reality--Ayn Rand

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    Think for yourself.....question all authority.....re-evaluate everything you think you know. Red-pill yourself!

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    • #3
      Pull the plugs, if there's a fuel or ignition issue, they will tell you. The cat failed because of the poor running condition the engine has been in the past 2 weeks, you've only fixed a symptom by straight piping it. Also verify good voltage to the injector harness (ground controls batch fire)
      Trees aren't kind to me...

      currently: 2 88Ls (Scrappy and Jersey), 88LX, 90L(Pepe), 91L, 91GL (Skippy) 93 GL Sport (the Mighty Favakk), 94 (Bruce) & 95 Aspire SEs, 97 Aspire (The Joker),
      94 Justy 4WD, 87 Fiero GT, plus 2 parts cars. That's my fleet.

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      • #4
        Did you check the Injectors to make sure nothing went past the filter and got plugged in the screens when you ran out of gas? Is it misfiring when this happens or just gets really sluggish. Have you checked for Vacuum Leaks? Have you had a Fuel Pressure check done? Replace the o2 sensor?

        Just a couple of ideas from me...
        "The White Turd" 1993 Festiva 144k miles. (Winner of FOTM November 2016)
        sigpic
        "The Rusty Banana" 1990 Yellow 5 Speed Mud Festiva (Lifted with 27" BKT Tractor Tires)(Winner of "Best Beater Award" - Madness 12 - 2018)

        "Papa Smurf" 1992 Blue 5 Speed Shell
        "Cracker?" (name pending) 1992 White Auto Shell (Future BP Swap)
        "Green Car..." Scrap Car that Runs?!?
        "Red Car..." Complete Scrap Car

        "El Flama Blanca" 1993 Festiva 104k miles. (Lil Brothers Car)
        https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzM...ew?usp=sharing

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        • #5
          I had very similar problems when my ECT (water temp sensor) was going bad. Changing the fuel filter would help for a few days, thyenm it would just act up and sputter out of nowhere, dies at idle, rough to start.

          Replacing the ECT fixed everything. A bad one caused the ECU to pick the wrong fuel mapping, messing up the AFR.

          However, mine also threw a CEL that I was able to read and confirm.

          For 18 bucks, it may be worth replacing either way.
          Will Samet

          JDMSTIVA - Rest in Peace. Festiva of the Month, May '16 - Best Beater & Bad Luck Award, FMX - (Build Thread)

          JDMSTIVA V2 - Racecar, Showcar, Work in Progress - (Build Thread)

          1990 LX - B6D swapped, mostly stock.

          How to find me:
          Facebook messenger is the best way. m.me/willsamet
          Feel free to PM me anytime!
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          • #6
            I will run all these questions by my mechanic in the morning, I asked if the injectors had been looked into when they were diagnosing the problem after the first pump replacement. They answered yes and I did not question further, since I admittedly don't know the little components involved in so many of these parts. I will ask that the screens be checked if they weren't already. The o2 sensor has not been replaced, and again I dunno for sure if that was something my mechanic looked into inbetween the first and second pump replacement. I do know that they were working for hours checking the "tune up" things wires, plugs etc. before arriving at the fuel pump again.

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            • #7
              The problem with many mechanics these days is very few know how to properly read plugs. I was fortunate to learn from some old Nascar guys who would set timing by the color and it's position on the ground strap... Gotta love the old school
              Trees aren't kind to me...

              currently: 2 88Ls (Scrappy and Jersey), 88LX, 90L(Pepe), 91L, 91GL (Skippy) 93 GL Sport (the Mighty Favakk), 94 (Bruce) & 95 Aspire SEs, 97 Aspire (The Joker),
              94 Justy 4WD, 87 Fiero GT, plus 2 parts cars. That's my fleet.

              Comment


              • #8
                Any updates? I've been chasing a misfire too.. I remember replacing my ECT when I did my engine swap. No code but warms up fine and then gets lean. Going to be checking ect hopefully today.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                Walth

                Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by walth View Post
                  Any updates? I've been chasing a misfire too.. I remember replacing my ECT when I did my engine swap. No code but warms up fine and then gets lean. Going to be checking ect hopefully today.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  I will know more on Monday. I took the car to a new mechanic this past week and he is convinced it is the MAF. As I understand it he believes there's a short somewhere that is causing the MAF to fail, he's bringing a salvaged MAF in on Monday to help him diagnose the issue. I replaced the water temp sensor and it didn't change anything.
                  The MAF issue has me tripped up, because I watched another mechanic install two different brand new maf's and both of them made the car run worse, They re-installed the old MAF and the car both times ran better than with the new ones... everyone here suggests injectors and as the chain of events has unfolded to me injectors make sense... but this new mechanic is dead set the issue is not with fuel. I dunno it's a big headache, this whole thing.

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                  • #10
                    Sluggish and choking, on going fuel/air issue

                    Sent you three photos via tapattack lemme know if they don't work


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Edit>> yeah it is a big headache for sure. I hooked up a multimeter to my engine coolant temp sensor yesterday and it went from .42 (20kohms) to .45 (20kohms) and then went blank. Don't know if I can trust hf unit haha. Bought expensive 9v last night for my new and better mm and we'll see how that goes.
                    Last edited by walth; 04-08-2017, 07:38 AM.
                    Walth

                    Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                    http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

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                    • #11
                      Figured out last night I was on the wrong circuit. I was on the IAC.

                      Im trying to figure out how to monitor any and all sensors. Does anyone have any electrical specs/ranges for sensors on efi festy's?


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Walth

                      Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                      http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Change the fuel filter? Check the hose connecting the maf to the intake for cracks or leaks. Make sure the connector is tightly on the maf. Check the fuel pressure when it is acting up. If all else fails replace the dist.

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                        • #13
                          I think my issue is with the tps being loose on rotation (in relation to actual throttle position)

                          Still looking forward to replies from OP


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          Walth

                          Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                          http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by walth View Post
                            I think my issue is with the tps being loose on rotation (in relation to actual throttle position)

                            Still looking forward to replies from OP


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            TPS on a festy is a 3 position switch, so if it's loose, it will only affect when it goes in and out of idle, and in and out of WOT. The in-between position is "run" and that works for 90% of its travel.

                            Could you explain your issues in a bit more detail?
                            Trees aren't kind to me...

                            currently: 2 88Ls (Scrappy and Jersey), 88LX, 90L(Pepe), 91L, 91GL (Skippy) 93 GL Sport (the Mighty Favakk), 94 (Bruce) & 95 Aspire SEs, 97 Aspire (The Joker),
                            94 Justy 4WD, 87 Fiero GT, plus 2 parts cars. That's my fleet.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sluggish and choking, on going fuel/air issue

                              Hesitant when shifting, misfire during idle and cruising, runs lean. Swapped vaf, disty, pulled and blew out injectors, swapped #4, tried different ecu, checked tps but not sure how we missed this...also cleaned a bunch of grounds, checked fuel pressure and it's good at idle and 1500+, compression is 120-150 warm, all new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, swapped coil, and more. Fairly confident it's tps..it's got at least .023 gap where the pin moves free til it touches the other side. Lmk what you think Arty, thanks

                              Oh, and I've had a rare but really terrible problem where it wants to die, goes super lean and doesn't want to move but I can feather it up to around 3500 and then it takes off like crazy train. Whether it's tps or not, I'm replacing this one...

                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              Last edited by walth; 04-09-2017, 07:42 PM.
                              Walth

                              Festiva #1: 91 Red L 4/5
                              http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27981

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