Oil level woes

[Stanza]

Hello all! I'm new to the forum, having just resurrected a 91 Festiva GL from a ten year slumber in a garage. Got it running, did an oil drain/change, and now I'm stumped on the dipstick. Owners manual specifies 4 quarts, including what sits in the filter, but even after putting four in, the dipstick is reading dry. I just came to this car from a 92 Roadmaster wagon with a big 350 small block, and that would register the added oil immediately. Am I missing something here? Should I wait a bit and then check again? Does the oil really take that long to trickle down into the pan on this little 1.3? Hoping that the passage to the dipstick isn't sludged over....

[Rick the Quick]

It sounds like you have the wrong dipstick. You did put the drain plug back in and you did tighten the oil filter, right? If you don't see 4 quarts of oil on the floor I would think it is the wrong dipstick or you are reading it wrong. Can you post a picture? The dipstick on my '93 with a B3 engine is 15" from bottom of the stick to where it seals at the tube. The full mark is about 1+1/2" up from the bottom tip. I hope this helps. And no I never heard of a B3 taking time to fill the crank case. By the time you get the last quart in and put the filler cap back on, toss the empties in the trash, wash your hands, all 4 quarts should be registering on the stick.

[Stanza]

Thanks Rick! Measured the stick, and it's exactly 16" from the tip to the tube seal. Moreover, the oil level is now reading exactly an inch above the full mark, which corresponds with the stick being an inch too long. Patience may or may not have been the key here.

[radi8u]

Welcome Stanza! After driving a boat like that Roadmaster the Festy will feel like a go kart!!! We love pics, especially when you bring one back to life so let's see your '91 GL!!!

[WmWatt]

I put mine up on ramps to change the oil. The old oil drains well that way and I can get underneath the unscrew the plug. I put 3 litres (about 3 quarts) in and let it down off the ramps (starting the engine fills the filtre when that's changed). Once the car is level again I use the dipstick to add the rest of the oil. The oil flows to the crankcase right away, no waiting.

[Rick the Quick]

Speaking of oil filters, I like to prime mine with a bit of fresh oil. This minimizes any chances of air cavitation in your oiling system not to mention it is better for your pump to pressurize a filter that is oil saturated versus a dry filter. When you pour oil into your new filter you will see it push air out as the level goes down. You will figure out just how much you can get in without making a big mess while getting back onto the engine. I imagine this may be viewed as over-kill (nice name for a car BTW, oh darn someone beat me to it..LOL) but in the end it's little things that all add up. Just my 2 cents worth :tm:

[william]

Manual might say 4 quarts but it's to much. I use 3 + one I believe 15 oz stp with zddp and it's perfect.
Did this for the b3 (original engine) and with the b6d

[ryanprins13]

He may have been rounding, i think my manual says 3.4L of oil, but i do it the same way as william almost. fill the oil filter as much as possible like rick said- i think thats pretty important actually rather than over kill. installing a pre-lube pump in a festiva would be overkill-
3L in the 710 hole, fire it up for 10 seconds.
Then i typically clean everything up while the oil is draining from the head, check the level, add the rest. Then fire it up again, crawl underneath and look for leaks at the filter and drain, make sure my bypass filter and its fittings arent leaking, drive home and check again the next morning when its easier to read the dipstick.

With filling the filter first- if you dont do it the oil pump has to fill the filter before the motor gets any oil. With a mechanical oil pressure gauge you can see the time difference in building pressure between filling and not filling the oil filter. The engine is turning over 15-25 times a second when you first fire it up and the sooner oil gets to the bearings and top end the better. Especially when you have an oil filter full of air blowing all the oil that stayed in the bearings out.

Also like rick was saying the filter media is fairly weak, the bypass valve prevents any pressure differential across the media greater than 8psi to avoid tearing the media. But thats when its wet and has oil on both sides. I would imagine it would be a lot easier to blow a hole through dry media with compressable air on the inside.
(And yes, purolator (aka tearolator) has a history with this happening either at startup or right in the factory)

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[Stanza]

Thanks for all the feedback folks! It's been fun getting to know this tiny car over the last few weeks. It is running better each day, after a ten year sleep. I've discovered a pretty steady leak from the valve cover, but I already have the new gasket waiting to be installed when the weather permits. Compared to the roadmaster, it's like a go-cart. I was really expecting the engine to be weak sauce in comparison, but with so much less weight, it really pulls nicely. I am trying to figure out why the idle speed control diaphragm goes back down so slowly, but I suspect it's thanks to a vacuum leak somewhere. Here's the only picture I have so far, of it up on a lift getting a new muffler installed. Oh, and one of the roadmaster, which sadly has been retired (extensive frame rot) 23550033_10214881403256483_1061378664611561400_o.jpg
20171029_131211_Richtone(HDR).jpg

[harpon]

3.5 or 3.7 quarts is usually closer to the fill mark on the 1.3 motors- that's part of the beauty- you still have "add oil" left in a bottle if you use quarts.
My 96' Aspire with 126,000 still never needs any oil added between 2500 mile changes, and until it's seen a few hundred miles- I have trouble reading the level on the dipstick because it's just too clear to see.

My last 88 Festy with 275,000 PLUS did not take an extra quart between changes, unless I was on the highway driving all day for days in a row. My 91- only 76,000 on the meter- still not on the road, and I still haven't gotten around to getting the fuel delivery resolved. Maybe next year. Getting some needed old person rest.....beating a dead horse

[Aaronbrook37]

One useful tidbit to remember with the valve covers is that the sealant goes into the groove between the gasket and the cover itself, not the other way around. Took me a while to clue into the fact that I was always doing this backwards when I first started working on B-series motors. This ensures not only a better and cleaner seal, but it allows one to more easily seat the gasket in position without it falling out of place during installation. If you want to be particularly thorough, RockAuto sells Beck/Arnley grommet packs for $1.37 Canadian at the time of writing this post. The M6 bolts themselves are easily over-torqued and snapped if you're not careful.