Possible Overheating Issues

[creyes1994]

Hello again. I recently overhauled an engine on a 93 GL Automatic and noticed that the car was running a bit how or at least I thought it was. I used my 88 LX 5-Speed as a way to compare the temperature readings while idling. The 88 LX barely passes 1/4 through the "operating range" while the 93 GL stays around 1/2 to 3/4 in the "operating range" and the engine seems hotter. Everything has been replaced including radiator, coolant, head gasket, thermostat, temperature sensor, water pump, and there are no leaks. Also, the radiator has the proper amount of coolant. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[ryanprins13]

Hey, there are large variations on the instrument cluster gauges between different festivas. One will read just above 1/4 at 195f and another a little over half.
When the thermostat opens on my festiva it is over half way up. Fan doesnt come on until over 3/4 of the way up, probably 2/3. Thats no issue, just unfortunate that it varies between cars. What i would do is one day when its warm park the car and let it idle or rev it a little higher in neutral with your window or door open and wait for the fan to come on. When it does look at your temp gauge and note how high it is. That shouod be 207f. You are able to safely go over 220f with all that new stuff you have

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[harpon]

Got a neat little thermometer in the radiator cap cap on ebay - it reads in centigrade though, but a handy little thing when not sure about whats going on with it all otherwise

[creyes1994]

I found something new. Apparently the AC has something to do with the issue. I was driving home and all of a sudden the ac belt popped. As soon as the ac stopped, the temperature gauge went down. This car has the factory ac and I noticed a small fan in the bumper that I had never paid attention to. I had just remembered something someone told me a long time ago but i wasnt sure if it was true or not. Supposedly Festivas would get hot in stop and go traffic with the AC on. Again I dont know if thats true or not.

[harpon]

Here's a stupid little tip- a measure of last resort, yet it works and can get you further down the road-

Don't forget the heater core- it has just a tiny bit of coolant not as hot that you can merge if you're on the road and overheating-
and, if you're not already boiling over yourself- running the cabin fan through- actually does dispel a measure of heat reflected on the gauge.

I've developed some overheating after nursing a leaky water pump for some time and adding copper leak stop to the system periodically-

Do you suppose the copper lowers the coolant's ability to deal with heat, or maybe I've just pushed too much and sludged up the system somewhere otherwise?

Anybody had negative side effects from cooper or silver leakstop?

[creyes1994]

Ive never personally used additives so I wouldn't be so sure. The car seems to be gradually running cooler. I did try an experiment. I started both the 88 LX and the 93 GL and let them run for 45 minutes idle with the ac on. Then in that time, I loosened both gauge clusters and swapped them between cars. The gold tach cluster was reading 50 % in the 93 GL and the white tach cluster i put in the car was reading 75 %. Also, I bought an infrared thermometer and took the temperature of both engines and the 88 was at 175- 185 and the 93 was at 185 to 195. So everything seems to to be okay right now....

[Dragonhealer]

Don't forget a new engine makes more heat due to friction untill the parts have "run in"
There does seem to be a wide variation in temp readings gauge to gauge....

[TominMO]

Ive never personally used additives so I wouldn't be so sure. The car seems to be gradually running cooler. I did try an experiment. I started both the 88 LX and the 93 GL and let them run for 45 minutes idle with the ac on. Then in that time, I loosened both gauge clusters and swapped them between cars. The gold tach cluster was reading 50 % in the 93 GL and the white tach cluster i put in the car was reading 75 %. Also, I bought an infrared thermometer and took the temperature of both engines and the 88 was at 175- 185 and the 93 was at 185 to 195. So everything seems to to be okay right now....

Presumably you have the same temp-range thermostats in both cars?

I like the Motorad Fail-Safe thermostats that default to the open position instead of closed when/if they fail. Here is the 192 deg F one at Rock Auto.

+1 on harpon's tip about cranking up the heat if the temp gauge goes too high, to pull some heat away from the motor. I have successfully used this trick in the past. In the summer, run the hot air through the defrost vents only, and open the windows.

A similar electrical tip: I used to have a Subaru Loyale which had a voltmeter. Once when it was showing too much voltage due to failure of the alternator's built-in voltage regulator, I turned on the accessories--heat with fan on high, and the radio. That brought the voltmeter needle back down to a more acceptable level until I could replace the alt.

[harpon]

creyes wondered if the A/C has anything to do with the blower fan- I'm wondering the same thing- I'm wondering if my fan is coming on properly- Iit does come on- just not sure if it is coming on enough at high temps-
It's a 96 Aspire I guess I should menton
I went out earlier turned on the a/c just after starting- hoping to see which direction the a/c fan blew- and the radiator fan was blowing with coolant barely warm?

I've been looking at fan switches on ebay- I can't find one listed but they have all kinds of "Universal fit"- with 3/8 pipe threading and a blade connector at the top- think that would thread in?

and does the A/C switched on turn on the radiator fan more- The old 88 Festy didn't have A/C.

[harpon]

The answer is- and I guess old hat to some- contained right there in the Haynes manual- yes- the fan COMES ON when the A/C is activated-

so I've lately been driving around trying to keep the temp down with the A/C off- when actually THAT runs the cooling fan more-

and the test of unplugging the coolant temp switch DOES NOT cause the fan to automatically turn on- -

so I think my problem has been that the fan circuit is not working properly, and I'll be evaluating that further

meanwhile it may be of some value to make sure I have the a/c on just to make sure the fan is running enough-

and more the norm in Jacksonville in June anyway

I can't seem to find the fan circuit relay listed separately on ebay either- but looking more into a kit like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Engine-Fan-175-To-185-Degree-Thermostat-Relay-Wiring-Switch-Accessories/181908266542?_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52475%26meid%3D7b2159f0ec564b6f9b6d8c2acf872167%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D182062916335%26itm%3D181908266542&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

and if I don't run a completely new circuit maybe I can splice the relay in if the OE seems bad

Another question:

Do you think I could wire in a new relay circuit to the coolant fan connector and yet still leave the juice in place from the A/C unit? Or would power from two sources- the ac fan and the coolant switch- have any adverse effect on the other circuit. I have some diodes- would one be necessary?

[creyes1994]

Thats what my friend was telling me about the engine running hotter because of the increased friction. As for the cars having the same thermostat, I dont remember ever changing the thermostat on the 88 LX. That car has never had any cooling problems other than a cracked radiator and an occasional hose or two.

[harpon]

This would be a better kit on Rock Auto- it's for my 96 Aspire mind you- 94-96 radiator fan motors are controlled by the computer via the data from the coolant sensor on the block near the thermostat housing. They don't have a separate cooling fan switch. So if the circuit goes down it might be a mess. This kit contains the right sensor and an independent relay , wiring and inline fuse- this would by-pass the other circuit I think- I'm guessing the blade connectors hook to the fan? Could be wrong- Anyway, this could maybe save a great deal of cost and pain

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3843708&cc=1105254&jsn=739&jsn=739

Anyway I had the sensor out Tuesday, and cleaned the connections- not much to it- I thought maybe the circuit was down, but when I tested it, the fan DID come on without the A/C on- apparently at the correct temp- (the little built in temp gauge on the top of the China cap is a nice thing to gauge this!) so I think my concentration of too much copper seal and greater percentage of water than the usual straight coolant I usually run lower the resistance to high temps- as it has a slow leak at the pump, and I keep just adding straight coolant the problem seems like it may be diminishing. Yay! It hasn't left normal Op temp the last few drives now-

4666melvin 024.jpg

When I took this photo of the Aspire out on the Mohave desert in 2004 or so (Yes the same one still, bought at 35K and now jus about to 129K) a moment later some people drove past and stopped another 100 yards further up the dirt road and started shooting a bunch of guns and live ammo, ricocheting about, so I didn't stay around much longer! I lived out there in Needles Ca for several years then.

[harpon]

If anyone's interested-

After Further testing- It appears that the strange source of overheating in my Aspire is almost definitely due to the Copper radiator/Pump sealant I've been using for a year, putting off the water pump replacement. I was diluting the coolant back down, adding nothing but pure coolant as it needed it- the leaking's a bit worse then, yes- but the overheating seemed to get better. Today when I had let the coolant get low, I added MORE COPPER- and then under about the same conditions (90 degree temp) the car got hotter again. I'd say I'm 95 percent certain that the copper sealant eventually makes the coolant less effective. The pump replacement is in order- I may replace the radiator too if that doesn't cuer it- I'm almost certain a new pump and belts and total coolant change will stop the problem. Then the CV axles.

With the price of gas going up a I knew it would I'd love to be able to drive the 1.3 Aspire for awhile.

[ryanprins13]

That stuff supposidly coats everything metal like your block and the inside of the rad. So not only does it reduce heat transfer in the rad, but it also does in the block. Just what ive heard, never tested that.

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[harpon]

Finally got the water pump and timing belt repair last week- the car is not leaking coolant now- it was a about a gallon every two months for many months, then it got to a gallon a month and finally about a gallon a week when I stopped putting copper seal in the radiator.

So that's great but anyway the car was still overheating, though not quite as much, and so today I put in a new radiator and a great big 16" fan. I just went out for some food and the car was running VERY cool. So yeah I think the copper was the main culprit overheating- It delayed the repair for a year- gotta lot of crap going on in life- but Ii had to spend $50 on a new radiator- Prognosis- the copper may work for a short time but not recommended other.

Incidently the ebay vendor shipped me a radiator listed for an A/T- #1625- for my 96 5 speed Aspire, when it didn't specify any transmission one way or another. Further searching the part number I saw that their is a separate listing for manual #1625- I couldn't find anything listed on the net for less than about $150. I queried the vendor who said it would fit, as it did on a quick look under the hood It's 4 inches wider and so now more mirrors the A/T condenser, and It doesn't appear that tranny fluid would go in any part but at the bottom- An Escort I had -an A/T had a small distinct zone in the cooling fins- but anyway it looks as if it may in fact have more cooling surface- really jade a dif on the first run.htd

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