Very strange problem

[Zfestiva]

History:

1991 Ford Festiva L, manual trans, 5 forward gears, 1 reverse.

Bought car from friend who had the car for six years. When this problem first surfaced, he replaced the fuel filter with a cheap one and when that did not help replaced the fuel pump. That did not solve it either. He bought a truck and let the car sit for a few weeks. I bought the car from him and had to push it to get started because the battery had gone bad. Had to get a jump start at work the next day and found out the battery was bad. Replaced battery and problem almost disappeared. In fact I went for several months without a single problem, but in the last few weeks, it has surfaced again. Here are some symptoms:

When I first start the car everything sounds normal. After a few miles if I stop, I can hear the fuel pump lightly humming. After a few miles more the car starts acting like it is missing and if I pull over, I can hear the fuel pump surging loudly as in UUMMMMuuuuummmmUUUUUmmmmmUUUUmmm.

Anytime, whether driving or standing still, if I turn the ignition key off for just a second or two, it will drive fine for four to 7 miles, then it will happen again. Turning the key off and back on always corrects the problem temporarily.
Seems to be worse as the gas tank gets lower. Keeping the tank full above ¾ seems to help.

I also noticed that if I am sitting still and the fuel pump is surging, if I turn on the head lights, the pump slows down (you can hear it) but keeps surging, and in some cases the car might stall.

I have driven the car as far as 50 miles turning the key off and on every 4 to 7 miles without any other problems.

The further I drive it, the more frequent the problem. After 15 or so miles, I have to do the ignition every 1 to 2 miles.

I have lived with this problem for 6 months while driving the car to and from work daily. Recently I took the car to a Ford dealer who had a mechanic who had worked on Festivas. After 2 ½ hours the only thing he could come up with was that the “meter flow vane” (sp?) tested bad and that probably was causing the problem. He told me that Festiva parts were obsolete and he could no longer get them. I naturally turned to the internet and first found Festiva.com. Now I have some hope!!

I called Carpartswholesale.com who has a long list of Festiva parts listed on their website, but they said they did not have that part. Due to the heavy accents of the people I talked to, I assume I was speaking to someone in the Far East and perhaps they had no idea what I was talking about.

I really love my little Festiva (Poor man’s mini-cooper) and except for this problem it runs fantastically great.

Anybody have any other diagnostic ideas and/or know where I might look to get a “meter flow vane”?

Thanks for helping a new member.

Art

[stefan]

i think thats the vane airflow meter, its the top part of the air filter intake box. If that is the problem I would just get one at a junkyard. failing that, im sure someone here could hook you up. i know i could pick you up one at a yard if needed.

[b3 madness]

It sounds to me like you should check the fuel pump and especially the "sock" prefilter on the pickup tube for the fuel pump. Years of crud and accumulation build up and clog the sock filter. Turning off the key allows some debris to fall away for a short time allowing some restricted fuel flow, but then it clogs again.

"Meter flow vanes" are available at JY or pop up on eBay from time to time, but I do not believe that to be your problem. If you do indeed need one, I am sure that someone here can get you one for a reasonable price.

[packrat427]

Welcome to the board

There are many here that will have a VAF if you need that .

I am wondering if he replaced the sock on the end of the fuel pick up in the gas tank , when he did the pump ??

Have you tried cleaning all your connections on the VAF plug ,and the electrical connections in the brown box on the drivers side inner fender well , marked main , and the others also .
and check all your other connections under the hood while you are at it , and the TPS plug in .. it is on the throttle body, little square black box ..opposite side of the throttle cable .
I hope some of this helps , let us know

[htchbck]

[edit] this just goes to show how helpful this board is, lol, when I started typing this response there were no other responses... by the time I finished and posted there were already three others

What he was probably refering to is the VAF (vane air flow) meter. It is housed in the silver/gray box thing that sits on top of the air filter (the part you have to remove when changing the air filter). It could be what is causing your problem since it sends signals to the computer about the air coming in and the computer adjusts the air/fuel mixture accordingly. I don't know why that would be making the fuel pump surge, but from the other symptoms you described I think there is a good chance that the VAF is at least part of the problem. And he's right, a lot of our parts ae obsolete, but try posting a [WTB] for a VAF meter in the for sale/wanted section and you will probably have a dozen people willing to sell you a used one in good condition. If you can't find one on here or locally just let me know and next time I'm at the yard I'll pull one for you and sell it to ya for the price they charge me (probably around $15-$20 I haven't bought one in a while) plus shipping. Good luck, and thanks for trying to keep one more festy out of the scrapyard, thats our job around here

[Dave G]

I'd check the fuel pump pressure. Get a Haynes manual (any auto parts store) - it has a procedure to do this.

[25Horseplay]

I had a car act like that and the VAF was loose not letting it meter the air properly. Check all tthe air intake connections too!

[Zfestiva]

Wow!! Quick, friendly, and thorough replies!! I have found the right place!! I am not much of a mechanic, but a local shop I have dealt with for years will do my work if I have a manual and the parts for them to use. They are good honest country boys that treat people right.

I will start with posting a "VAF" wanted and also begin checking some of the things mentioned in the posts. I will also check with my friend to see if he cleaned the sock, etc.

I will keep everyone posted.

[packrat427]

Some pumps come with a new sock , some don't , have to be purchased separate ... keep us posted please

[stefan]

I am not much of a mechanic, but a local shop I have dealt with for years will do my work if I have a manual and the parts for them to use.

you dont have to be much of a mechanic to do ither of these things. To take off the VAF its only 3 or 4 blots, a hose clamp, and an electrical connector. Real easy job. Getting at the fuel pump assembly is a bit trickier, but if your patient its not that bad. To get at the access panel you flip the back seat forward and pull back the carpet. Then you can take off the panel off (4 screws) then you can see the pump assembly. Clean this area up good before going any further so you dont get dirt in your tank. Now disconnect the fuel hose and the electrical connector. The pump is held in by several screws, once these are removed you can carefully pull the assembly out.

Which looks like this;



at the very least get your self a haynes manual and you'll be fine. These cars are very easy to work on.

good luck!

[GenevaDirt]

NIce pics...I will have to do that to mine...I am having some problems with my fuel too.

[Zfestiva]

Repair manuals

Which is the best website to order a repair maual from for my 91? I have found a few selling them, but would like a recommendation from people who know the ropes.

I have the original owners manual, but it does not cover simple things like changing the air filter!!

As I said, I am not much of a mechanic, but I am very "book smart" and usually if I have a book I can learn to do almost anything.

Thanks again for your continued help.

[oldgrezmonke]

Which looks like this;



at the very least get your self a haynes manual and you'll be fine. These cars are very easy to work on.

good luck! [/quote] new filters usually do not have the same shape/ size as old filter-one way to tell if it was changed. ask your friend if he also changed the under-hood filter.

[WmWatt]

Haynes manuals for most makes and models of light vehicles are widely available. Another publisher is Chilton. Try your local auto parts outlet. Here in Canada the big home-and-auto discount chain (Canadian Tire) carries them. If not in stock they will order.

Also try you local public library for auto repair and auto mechanics texts.
Also try second hand book sales. I've bought several cheap car repair books second hand. I usually buy any Haynes manuals I find for older cars and offer them on local Internet newsgroups for a small markup.

[Kraig]

Do yourself a favor and buy a factory manual off EBay, I paid $15 for mine with all the updates etc. in it.