new guns

[91mcnasty]

Holy crap kumalaba, what is that short AK looking thing? Excuse my Lack of gun knowledge.

[HondaSlayer]

I want an AUG type rifle so bad. I want the type with the scope already on it though. I also want an FN ps-90

[kumalaba]

msar 5.56:smilebox:

[kumalaba]

nice!

[Christ]

Bought a couple new ones... and got rid of the 20g NEF I had for a $70 credit in store at my FFLoC.


Mossberg Tactical A4 carbine copy in .22LR. Light, easy to maneuver, 25rd mags and adjustable stock.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/394729_2401438125112_1525840049_31795079_947120868_n.jpg

Mil, Inc. "Thunder Five" chambered .45/.410, 5 shot revolver, weighs 48oz.

The total deal went like this: I had already paid about $120 on the .22LR with an extra mag, and there were two shotguns (Mossberg 16g bolt, Marlin 20g bolt) and this revolver. I went into the shop with the NEF 20g and $600 cash, walked out with all 4 of my guns and left the NEF there. The NEF basically covered the taxes (about $70), and I only paid $60 for it from a cousin who bought it to help someone out.

Basically, I paid $300 for the revolver, and $75 for each shotgun. I already sold the Marlin (which came with an optical sight) for $150.

[kumalaba]

jazzed em up a bit.

[navdoc101]

There was 2 .45 Lugers, & only one is still around. Its is litteraly priceless.

[Safety Guy]

Tom wrote:

"Ever here the story about how the 1911 beat out the S&W for the Army contract? The 1911 just kept firing & firing. And from what I've been told the Smithy seized up."

If you're talking about the original cavalry pistol trials done by the U.S. Army, here is a link which looks like it has correct info:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/M1911_Trials.htm

And an NRA article, which should be quite accurate:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/trials-of-m1911/

I know that DWM submitted a Luger in .45 ACP as well as Savage. The article linked above must have been the "showdown" between the two finalists after the Luger and any others were washed out. I've read a bit about the trials, who was presiding, etc., but my memory is not photographic. I don't recall any S&W semi-auto pistol being submitted, and the first Smith autos I can recall weren't made until maybe the twenties or thirties.

By the time of the final trials, the Army was set on a semi-auto pistol instead of a revolver. I think earlier trials, perhaps around 1905 (around the time of the birth of the .45 ACP cartridge itself) focused on cartridge selection. For that, consider reading about the Thompson-LaGarde experiments which are briefly mentioned in the American Rifleman article above. Here is a specific link to what looks like a version of the actual report:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html

More at wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson-LaGarde_Tests

Short read; looks accurate enough to me.

BTW, Thompson was the designer of the Thompson SMG. LaGarde was an MD. The ".45 Colt" cartridge in the ballistic steer/cadaver tests was the old Single Action Army ".45 Long Colt," not the .45 ACP, which was not invented yet.

This era is extraordinarily fascinating, involving famous firearms inventers, Army Officers choosing our next service rifles, pistols, etc. Weave that in with the politics and general history of the time and you get another picture of our world and events which were percolating at the time (World War One).

Ah, maybe Tom was talking about the 1953 pistol trials! My mistake! Here is wiki on that:


"In 1953 the US Army was looking for a pistol to replace the Colt 1911A1.[17] To obtain a bid from the US Government, Smith & Wesson began working on a design similar to the German Walther P-38.[17] A year later the Army dropped its search and Smith & Wesson introduced its pistol to the civilian shooting market as the Model 39.[17]"

From this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson

And also up above I was thinking about the .35 Remington and got it confused with S&W. S&W didn't have a semiauto until the M39, I believe. Gotta look up the "Escort" model .22...

Well, what do you know!? Here is the S&W M1913:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_1913

In .35 S&W! My memory is not that bad, just confused. Now for the .35 Remington. NO, scratch that, it's the Remington Model 51:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_51

I'm stopping now. My mind is getting too much of a workout and finding out how senile I am!

Karl

[nitrofarm]

1911

Ever here the story about how the 1911 beat out the S&W for the Army contract? The 1911 just kept firing & firing. And from what I've been told the Smithy seized up. I constantly have been rekeying forclosures for the past 25 years. I did one down in twin lakes,wi @ 15 years ago.The man had passed away. He was a book worm/shut in.There were literally thousands & thousands of books in the house. I was looking around and saw a box on the top shelf of one of the book cases. I found a original 1911 that his son had given to him for a birthday gift in 1975. The card was still in the box. My Dad taught me to shoot skeet @ 9 years of age.I just imagined how maybe they had shot together like me & my Pa.We did many tournaments together. I just put the gun back in the box and walked away.I have know idea who got the gun. The neighbor stated that he had no more living family members. But I never would have felt right taking it. I'm sure some real estate agent or appraiser or clean up crew picked it up.

[navdoc101]

I kinda though the revolver might be a early Taurus. Not sure, Spain did have a lot of copies.

[HondaSlayer]

That looks pretty close to me. Ill have to let my uncle bud look at it. He is an avid gun collecter. He should know for sure. Thank you for all the info on them though.

[Safety Guy]

YES!!

Go to post #27 and look at that one, then read from there:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/206877-your-spanish-s-w-copies-lets-see-em-3.html

From a quick look it seems very similar to yours. What do you think?

You may never know exactly who made it, but again, various small companies copied all sorts of guns back then. My understanding is that Spain had a very vibrant "cottage" firearms industry which copied lots of foreign designs.

They're not exactly alike. The link has too much glare to see the pins well. Also, it looks as though both revolvers have different cylinder rotations. That's what you'd expect from copies, though!

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Okay Slayer, I googled "S&W hand ejector" and from looking at pics of real Smiths, I'm 99.9% sure your revolver is NOT a S&W. I did not see any old Smiths with those pins above the trigger guard, and your gun seems to lack a sideplate like Smith would have. The action does seem to come out the bottom of the frame, as in the Ruger design, but much earlier of course.

So far I'm still thinking "Spanish copy" but that's not my area. Go to some auction sites and look for "S&W copies" and you may find some that have similar construction.

Here's a link to a Spanish copy:

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?ItemId=59158

Note the similar pins above the trigger guard, the shape of the trigger guard (not a Smith shape), and the lack of a sideplate (thus, the pins, to hold the action into the frame).

Probably lots of Spanish companies made these. I'm sure there are guys out there who know this stuff by wrote, but it ain't my area. All I knew is that the parts and shapes were not quite "S&W enough." Also note the shape of your cylinder latch. Very "un"Smith.

This looks like a cool book, but it's out of print and expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/Spanish-Handguns-History-Pistols-Revolvers/dp/0883172232/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326201277&sr=1-1#_

I also did not see much on revolvers looking inside it online. Maybe you could see about borrowing it by interlibrary loan. Go to your local public library and ask about that method. Some library somewhere should have a copy!

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Ah, that 1900 Browning is so cool! John Moses Browning knew his stuff, what with multiple lever, pump, semi-auto and automatic firearms still in wide use today. All around 100 year old designs!

The Colt 1911 and the Browning M2 .50 BMG heavy machine gun (like on the jeep) are two of the better known ones.

I guessed the Ortgies as soon as I had a closeup.

As for the revolver, it is a S&W pattern, but could be a European copy for all I know. I'm not sure if S&W usually had their trademarks covered by engraving or not. You might try taking off the handles and looking underneath. Also, the pins above each end of the trigger guard don't look right for a Smith. It's as if there is a piece that comes out the bottom, which could be a different design from Smith. I'm not familiar with older Smiths so I can't say, but the shape of the trigger guard is not quite "Smith" enough to look familiar. The whole thing screams early 20th century to me; probably teens or twenties if not earlier.

A lot of Spanish companies made Smith knockoffs back then, IIRC.

Karl

[kumalaba]

they are very addictive once you start buying them, like festivas