'89 Mazda 323 4 speed OD non-electronic trans

[htchbck]

Actually from my research I think the later 323s may be an F4A-EL? Does that sound right?

[Damkid]

what's that supposed to mean!?! :p

Just razzin' ya :lol:

[FestYboy]

^ yeah.... hehehe

htchbck, there is a G4H-EL that's used in the protege B8s and EGT Autos, the F4A-EL is in the Capri and 4cyl MX-3 autos. the ONLY trans i've seen that has a standalone TCM is a 92 MX-3 and only that year... or so my research suggests. using an electronic trans vs. a hydro unit doesn't change the size of the case, just adds some external solinoids.

[lessersivad]

trans cable

This is ONLY a guess as i have no experience what so ever with the trans.

I would imagine the "kickdown" cable is what would control the valve body pressure much like the cable does on the GM 200R4 and the 700R4.

GM calls it a TV cable. TV standing for "throttle valve."

The adjustment of the cable is pretty crucial in determining shift points and proper pressure for gear engagement.

Being there is a book with info on the trans is going to be a big help.

Just my 2¢.

[htchbck]

Yep, you're right sivad! Learned that today myself .

So Arty, would the F4A be similar in size to the F3A? Because I will try to snag one of those too. If it could be easily FIT into the festiva, even if the wiring and all might be a pain. I would probably wait till an MX3 pops up at the yard and try to grab engine, trans, computer, and complete wiring harness. Would probably be simpler than trying to hack and slash a system into it.

[FestYboy]

that i'm not sure of.... (size wise). i'm personally not afraid of cutting/splicing the harness to run an electronic trans (not a difficult transaction, just time consuming). on the other hand, i LIKE the idea of a hydro trans to throw into Caety's trans behind a B8 swap. so if you find that you prefer an electronic trans to the G4A-HL, i'll gladly buy it off you!!! :toothy3:

[htchbck]

Sorry, that will not happen. However, if I find an F4A before I find another G4A-HL, I'll let you get the next one I find . But first things first, fitting it in. Its gonna take some work. Looks like its the same as the F3A width wise (frame rail to frame rail) so that shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately it is a lot bigger front to back. I think the best approach will be to get a skinny rad that will fit where the condensor goes, allowing the entire engine/trans combo to be shifted forward about an inch which is needed to clear the rack. Shouldn't put too much extra strain on the axles I wouldn't think, or too much more work since I have to make mounts anyway. I'm hoping I'm lucky enough to simply redrill holes for the front trans mount and only have to fab a rear mount and bracket for the pass side. But we'll see. First I gotta get my B6 into Chuck so I can take green car off the road for a little surgery. I'm going to do it with a B3 first, since the B3 in Green car is freshly rebuilt and I think its up to the task. I learned the that gear ratios are identical to the F3A except the overdrive adds a 0.700 up top. So in OD lockout it would be like driving a normal auto festiva anyway lol

[Safety Guy]

I'm keeping an eye on this thread! While I wanted to be the first to document a four speed auto Festiva swap, I doubt I have Htchbck's ability to do it. My electronical abilities are not up to snuff. So maybe I can be the second or third to put one into Luxstiva.

Htchbck wrote:

"So in OD lockout it would be like driving a normal auto festiva anyway."

Do you mean with fourth gear (OD) locked out you'd be in third gear, which is the same ratio as a Festiva auto's third gear? Sorry, I'm just confused.

Karl

[FestYboy]

yeah, OD lockout keeps the trans in 3rd which is 1:1

[Safety Guy]

Thanks Arty.

Karl

[Safety Guy]

Found this on CL. Maybe there is a bit of info that could help or some similarity that could be mined for info. This guy sounds like he knows his Ford ATXs. Pics, too:

http://columbus.craigslist.org/pts/2747267026.html

Maybe if you emailed him and asked nicely he could share some info?

Karl

[htchbck]

My electronical abilities are not up to snuff.

Thats the beauty of this trans I found, it is hydraulically controlled by a cable via a that controls the throttle valve. Only electrics that are different than the festiva is the overdrive lockout which I believe is only two wires going to the lockout switch on the gear shift (which appears as though it will bolt straight in where the festiva one comes out of). If there is a lock-up torque converter (haven't found out yet) then it may also be electrically controlled, but other than that its the same as a festiva trans wiring wise.

Htchbck wrote:

"So in OD lockout it would be like driving a normal auto festiva anyway."

Do you mean with fourth gear (OD) locked out you'd be in third gear, which is the same ratio as a Festiva auto's third gear? Sorry, I'm just confused.

Karl

And yes, as Arty said the gear ratios for 1st through 3rd are identical to a festiva, so if you wanted to drive it like a three speed festiva you can hit the button to disable overdrive and it will be the same as a 3 speed festive trans. The overdrive is a 0.700 so if I understand gear ratios correctly (and I'm not claiming I do) then wouldn't that mean that on the highway when it shifted to overdrive you would be turning roughly 70% of the RPMs that you would in third? I know its not exact because there is some loss through the torque converter (assuming there is no lockup on it). If so then that should put the G4A-HL comparable to a 5 speed on the highway right? My plans are to do this first on Green Car with its freshly rebuilt B3. It already has plenty of power around town with the 3 speed, and on the highway it feels ready to shift into 4th (once it has it) at around 45-50MPH. I can already hit 35MPG in it going around 60 on the highway (actually a little higher since that isn't compensating for the 155/80R13s). So at 60 with the 4 speed I should be running the engine at about the same RPMs as ~45MPH RPM range if I was in third? I can see this being the first 40MPG ATX festiva on the highway, even if it doesn't make a huge difference in town. If all goes well with the B3 I will probably switch to a B6 at some point, but since the lower gears are all the same, I'm not too worried about a loss of power going to the four speed, since if I need the power, all I have to do is lock out the OD and it has the same gears the car has now, and it is not in any way underpowered now with the fresh B3 in it.

[FestYboy]

ok, 2 things, the G4A-hL has a lock-up converter on it (like the aspire unit, it locks up at a certian RPM), and the final drive on the G4 is different than the Festy auto, so even though it has an overdrive, it'll only be aprox. 80% of the festy non-lock trans RPM at highway speed. even so, if 70mph is 3800rpm on a festy trans, than that equates to a tick over 3000 rpm on the G4 which is only 100 or so rpm above a Festy 5 speed!! = AWESOME

[htchbck]

Coulda swore I found both the F3A and G4A-HL on CP.com and they listed all the gears 1-3 as the same, as well as the final drive. But I (or they) could be wrong, I'll go look for it again. However, if you're correct then that would actually be even better! A tad bit zippier down low, but still better mileage on the highway! Makes my choice of using the fresh B3 sound even better

[FestYboy]

i'll pull up the listed ratios for the trans you're looking at in a few, gotta get the books.