all metal AT Radiator trans cooler used as aux oil cooler?

[bobstad]

I've recently purchased an all metal* CSF brand automatic transmission radiator for my manual transmission '91 Festiva L. DJ recommended an automatic radiator to replace the stock one on my manual transmission car as the cooling capacity is greater...and they are all that seems available anyway.

I am wondering if I might be able to use the otherwise unused automatic transmission cooler portion of the radiator as an engine oil cooler and wonder if anyone has done this?(someone at the local wrecking yard thought the idea was good "theoretically" and warned me to make sure to use good quality high temp oil lines)

My idea is to use a donut adapter between the spin on filter and engine such as Permacool sells...I've seen other brands also...which has an in and out for running an oil line to add on filters and coolers, and just route the line to the automatic transmission in and out on the bottom of the radiator.(does it matter which is in and which out?)

My goal is to have my engine last as long as possible, and I know running cool is helpful.(I'd also like to add a header exhaust, mild performance cam, balanced injectors, etcetera; with my budget these could wait a long time, though I've now installed FestivaMotorSport lowering springs and KYBs, 13" rims and a STILKO oil filter-I'm currently a TP true believer and will try to mention here if I regret it later)

The car had seemed to run pretty cool already even though the cooling fan has never worked since I've owned it, a problem in the wiring or relay or thermostat since the fan works fine itself.(I plan to try to fix this, but haven't had to since I haven't done much driving where I'm sitting still for long until lately) Adding oil capacity seems feasibley to be an additional bonus to longevity.

The problem that got me interested in all of this is that I'd used some Alumaseal when a leak developed where the core meets the bottom tank, and now the radiator won't hardly drain but at a drip rate and the motor seems to run warmer and I also need to try to clean out the idle speed control bypass air thermostat since it has never worked either and I'm told these often get gunked up with crud from inside the coolant system and will work again once they are cleaned out.

I plan to have the motor backflushed(actually a higher tech sort of similar operation commercially available) before I install the new radiator, once I've tried to see what I can do for the idle speed control bypass air thermostat congestion, and the cooling fan.(my warrenty on the radiator is no good if my fan doesn't work)

I know once I have a new radiator and the fan and such up and running my cooling will likely be very adequate, but I also think I might like to tow some sort of small trailer,(and/or drive in Death Valley, etc.) and just hate to see that auto trans cooler sit around doing nothing if it could be included in the mix functionally.

My question is, if I do all the plumbing well, will this be a reliable and worthwhile modification?

*copper core-brass tanks...when I did a search here at FordFestivaDOTcom someone said only Festiva radiators with plastic tanks were available, but I have the all metal one sitting in my tool room that proves that wrong-from RadiatorBarnDOTcom for $114.15

[darkdan]

Oil cooler won't do much on our motors. Our engines don't run high oil temps.

If you want to reduce wear.

#1 www.auto-rx.com
#2 Synthetic oil when you're done with auto-rx
#3 Install a bypass filter setup.

Bypass filter system are a seperate filter that filters after the full flow filter. A regular full flow filter will only filter down to roughly 20 microns. A bypass filter will filter to below 1 micron.

This reduces about 60% of wear. Plus, it can add 2 quarts to the sump size (making ours a decent size). It drastically extends oil change intervals too.

Of course, a bypass filter system typically runs $260+, but it can pay for itself in 89k miles in saved oil changes.

On the flip side, a new motor for these cars costs less then $260.....LOL.

[Guest]

On the flip side, a new motor for these cars costs less then $260.....LOL.

A used engine may cost that, but not a new one. They cost about 1800.00

[darkdan]

I meant new to him.

[Guest]

I meant new to him.

I know.. :lol:

[bobstad]

thanks for the replys; here are some of my further ideas

I was really trying to find out if I COULD use the automatic transmission cooler portion of the radiator to route engine oil through, not whether or not this is a good idea.(as I have a manual trans, etc.)

I have been using nothing but MOBIL ONE since buying the car at 85,000 miles and that is all the previous owner used too.(I now have 130,000 miles)

The STILKO filter is a by-pass type filter and uses rolls of toilet paper to get filtration down to one micron.(I realise there is controversy over these types of filters, and refer anyone to a website called BOBISTHEOILGUY, that a web search will give the location of-type in a STILKO search once you are there and be ready for a thorough discussion and trust who you agree with most)

I looked at the additive suggested at autoRXdotcom, and may try it sometime, though I suspect with the MOBIL ONE and the STILKO my engine is already pretty clean inside the lubricating areas.

The coolant area though is where I think there may be cruddy stuff accumulating, and especially since using the ALUMASEAL, though the idle speed control by pass air thermostat was dysfunctional before that, which is operated by the coolant and which a good Ford mechanic told me gets clogged and can be made functional again simpley by cleaning it out...the car was originally from Alaska, which I purchased from a jet helicopter mechanic in the Coast Guard here in northern California-maybe they'd had some super anti-freeze in it that caused clogging as well as the ALUMASEAL I used?(the reason I'm replacing the radiator, because I don't trust the old one anymore, that as I mentioned in the original post began to leak at the bottom where the core meets the plastic tank)

I've driven over a local mountain pass at 104 farenhiet with no cooling fan and saw the gauge climb, but not pegged though near it; and during normal operation it seems to be a little warmer since the ALUMASEAL, but hardly past the middle of the gauge's range. On a recent urban trip however, having to shut off the motor on a typically grid-locked section of a major arterial several times has convinced me I should try to get my fan operable, that has never functioned since I've had the car, and which I never even noticed for a couple of years since the predominance of my driving has been open road. I'm very convinced this is a cool running motor and have seen discussions to that effect; so confirmation of my own experiences.

I do believe that adding greater sump capacity is a positive thing, so this idea of routing oil into the unused automatic transmission cooler on the radiator seems a way to do that and also to enhance the already "cool" character of my ride.(the looks I think pretty nice, with the sky blue Festiva color, and purple-pink powder coat painted '87 MAZDA 323 13" rims...ten dollars apiece for the rims and $125 for the paint job...they look ten times better on the Festiva than on a Mazda, a very factory-stock look in fact...I think some '70s Volvo hubcaps would fit, but they wanted more than the rims cost me...I also have some ideas about fitting the Ford ones, but haven't gotten around to it)

My goal with this car I really like and drive often, is to make it last as long as possible and be as economical as can be.(and improve performance without sacrificing these goals if feasible...and "economy" is not always measured in either dollars and cents or consumner costs, to a philosophical person, though I am affected either way and a fixed disability income usually decides by the dollar)

I already have gotten a "real" 43 mpg with the 13" rims(I multiply the odometer times 1.03 after much monitoring of five mile freeway mileage tests, digital electronic speed warnings along side the road, etc.) on a regular 1200 mile freeway journey I often make, at just under 70 mph...the legal limit is 65, and I've bombed along at over 80 too, late at night, and drop to around 27 mpg...removing a roof rack I'd thought very inconsequential really improved mileage a lot, and heavy rain also seems to affect things adversally, snowy slush too...)(I get 34-40 in my regular driving...around town, country and freeway; all mixed together...I think the stock 12" rims gave very inaccurately high mileage figures and speeds)

I've read some of the discussions here since making my post, about improving mileage and/or power...(sorry to get into this when the topic was cooling and the radiator)...I'm trying to do both, and with a stringent budget, so may just be fantacising: But I notice that FestivaMotorSportsDOTcom's newly revised website does not continue to advertise their "balanced and blue-printed" injectors they said would result in a three percent improvement in gas mileage, and also some power gain...they also had another item that seemed interesting besides a little hotter cam and the header exhaust, which was something to do with the throttle-body plate where the flow had been increased by relieving the hole so it was larger.(polished and ported head-work to go with a stronger cam and headers and the fancy injectors and the bigger holed throttle body would be another idea if I ever really got this serious...if I got into it, would be when I'm changing the timing belt which I did at 100,000 miles...or maybe purchase the bits and pieces over time as budget permits, and then the second timing belt down the road from now install every thing...I have an idea that is non-technical, but that my vehicles benefit from this sort of attention even if not realised in reality always)(I have both a Haynes manual, and the Ford factory shop manual)

I have seen the discussions here elsewhere at the website, about swapping motors, but when people advise going to a larger displacement, I always think of my 1300 cc motor having had great maintainence all of its still young life, and that some unknown factor from a wrecking yard might be endowed with much less natural longevity. And, just to replace a unit already giving good service seems too much consumnerism...that sounds like subjective reasoning perhaps, but for a person who rarely gets rid of anything, I know I'd have the old motor around as my back-up that likely would be taking up space that could be more well used.(my first car was a ten year old hundred dollar '57 Metropolitan that had a crankcase half full of STP, and I'd always thought I'd've liked to install an MGA twin-cam motor, which should've been a bolt in as the Metro used an Austin motor with an identical block to the MGA's-which I never got around to however...not to mention that mechanics though one of my hobbys the past forty years, is not my only one...that began as a father-son interest when I was twelve with Model Ts and As and flathead V-8 '30s Cadillacs, and greatly interested in motor sports-and matured the dozen years I lived out of a '66 VW squareback whose motor I overhauled four times as a homeless person, even once changing the transaxle at night because of the oppressive daytime heat and using a flashlite and kerosene lamp, and just using tools I carried in a small old rusted out metal fishing tackle box from a yardsale...I still think the PORSCHE 904 is the most beautiful car I've ever seen, one of which I was close enough to touch at one point; and one of my high school buddies eventually worked on Parnelli Jones' pit crew for awhile...but I also am as involved playing the saxophone and with just as little professionalism, and also am interested in natural healing...and though plenty ambulatory and even a little atheletic have some disability problems from spinal diseases when I was younger, so all of the above are done not as vociferously as an able bodied person might)

By the way, I run a straight pipe of 1 7/8" from the resonator back, and once drove a little ways on kerosene I'd thought was white gas when I ran out of gas, which was interesting the couple of blocks I had to drive to get back home.(I have a tip welded on the end of the exhaust pipe that has a spring loaded flap that is to keep exhaust in the catalytic converter during warm-ups, thereby reducing pollution...all sorts of performance claims were made for this very simple device, which is very well made of stainless steel and with a venturi effect, but it does make the motor run warmer if standing still for long...something, cringe, that I bought through J. C. Whitney...and lately discovered am able to make run open all the time simpley by pushing the flap up until it sticks...I love those Whitney catalogues for all of the wierd items, and also got their Tarzan yell horn at the same time, which delights some of my very youngest relatives and friends, if not particularly Tarzan like-for $20)(or the ape man needs looser underwear these days...)

[darkdan]

Yes, the TP bypass filters are wonderful things, but slightly messy when you change them.

Between the bypass filter and Mobil1 most of your engine should be clean....except the ring packs. That's one place that will always get dirty and it's the important one. Due to the high temps and combustion byproduct they'll get dirty.

However, I'm willing to wager your motor is pretty clean.

If you want to go through the trouble of hooking it up to the cooler, go right ahead.

Heck, maybe a water to oil cooler in my climate would be a good thing. It might help heat the oil in the winter. Of course, I have a hard enough time keeping the coolant hot!

[Santos]

Wouldn't the question can i or can i not be simply answered by
'Is the oil i use in my motor as thin as ATF- Automatic Transmission Fluid'

Seconded by the question ' do i change my oil frequent enough that it is clean with a oil flush to avoid clogging the ATF cooler lines'

From there I'd just say yeah, maybe source a Mazda b6 cooler adapter for the filter and plumb it in.

Still the Automatic tank is bigger right, maybe just fix the fan .

I am keeping the cooler idea if my radiator doesn't measure up to the rebuild

[bobstad]

...what was that, Santos?

[quote="Santos"]

"From there I'd just say yeah, maybe source a Mazda b6 cooler adapter for the filter and plumb it in."

Santos: You lost me on this. What is all that?(what is "source" as a verb, I've never heard that expression or seen it, etcetera...is it an internet thing?)

I guess the "Mazda b6 cooler adapter" is an aftermarket item like the donut type device I mentioned that Permacool sells? Lets see, in that context, "source" seems pretty obvious.(I was once president of my high school Latin club, in order to get a passing grade, but lost running for the vice-presidency of the state club in our convention at Roosevelt High in Seattle, my campaign manager giving my introduction and recommending me because he said I loved my dog...though I came in second and beat out a third place finisher...sadly now, my high school in Snohomish was the very last school in the state to give up their Latin program, and I can remember in '68 some schools even had Greek...I recently wrote a friend who is bright and a college grad who is 30 using the word "Solan" to mean a wise and determining person, that came to mind easily for me, and I realised no one anymore probabley would have any idea what I was talking about, a man whose name has been synonomous for over two thousand years with what he embodied in his own time, or at least that is the way he'd been remembered, etc.)

[Santos]

Hey australians can occasionally defile the Britannical english. It is pretty common expression and probably comes from people thinking of it's relation to 'locate'. (which is why i hate spelling cow as it often tells me to ' un-spell' what i have spelt correctly.)

As for the adapter i was talking factory not aftermarket. The B6T for example has a factory oil cooler

[bobstad]

My new radiator is in, but not with the oil cooler yet, etc.

I put the new radiator in my car last Wednsday, and was really disappointed with the supplier or manufacturer or both, because of a plastic threaded plug(#16 bolt size, with fairly fine thread pitch) someone had left out in the driver's side bottom corner I hadn't noticed, so that when I began to fill it all of the fluid ran out on the road.(the new radiator is specific to the Festiva, and this hole the plug should've been in is nowhere called for in any of either the Festivas or Aspires, so wierd to try to figure out why it was there in the first place, but some sort of a generic situation that must make for more economical manufacturing?)

The place I bought it from tended to act like it was my fault, RadiatorBarnDOTcom, and as if my waiting a month or so before I put the radiator in were some sort of a criminal offense, but I did get a small package with five of the necessary plugs enclosed today, five days later.(what the extra four were included for is a mystery, and perhaps why they come missing in the first place is one thought?)

I found the new radiator that is all metal has about a quart more capacity than the old one, but though I don't understand the difference, the old one's cooling fins, which are aluminum, are much more numerous.(the new radiator has copper fins and brass tanks, though was spray painted black all over for reasons I don't understand which makes it look like something remanufactured from wrecking yard pieces, which is made in Singapore by the way, and manufactured by CSF who are a very reputable firm, etc.)

I drove from here to Portland and back on the 13th and 14th, and didn't notice much if any difference in the cooling capacity, though perhaps the car ran a little cooler in the middle of the day when it was hottest...the weather simpley wasn't as hot as on a recent previous trip, so hard to tell for sure. At least I don't have to worry about the leak I had in the old radiator where the fins met the plastic bottom tank, that I'd fixed with Alumaseal, which has been my basic plan all along.(the new radiator weighs a little more, but not a whole lot)

My next step is to get the cooling fan operating, which it never has as long as I've had the car.(I worry I will wear the poor thing out?)

[Tim]

Re: My new radiator is in, but not with the oil cooler yet,

I put the new radiator in my car last Wednsday, and was really disappointed with the supplier or manufacturer or both, because of a plastic threaded plug(#16 bolt size, with fairly fine thread pitch) someone had left out in the driver's side bottom corner I hadn't noticed, so that when I began to fill it all of the fluid ran out on the road.(the new radiator is specific to the Festiva, and this hole the plug should've been in is nowhere called for in any of either the Festivas or Aspires, so wierd to try to figure out why it was there in the first place, but some sort of a generic situation that must make for more economical manufacturing?)

I believe that was for a temp sensor or something. The '80s Festivas had a sensor in that place, whereas the 90s Festivas didn't.

[bobstad]

Radiator repairs on stock

BTW: my replacement of my radiator is likely overkill, but typical of my stlye if you could call it that, of "mechanic."(not quite like the shop that replaces parts until the problem goes away; but along those lines and out of my own ignorance, and time and skill limitations)

Reading the Ford Festiva factory shop manual, I've noticed they recommend a procedure for fixing leaks at the seam between the metal fins and plastic tanks on top and bottom, which would likely of solved my problem without the expense of a new radiator.

This is to use some method to close the leak where the metal is crimped around the perimeter of the plastic and has opened up for some reason. I really haven't as much leaway to experiment as I'm not all that skilled or imaginative as long as a fairly cheap alternative exists.(I wonder what caused the leak after about 100,000 miles...on some emotional level I tended to trust better doing away with the whole system, than working to assure myself a repair would be as reliable)

But, the old radiator is not being tossed on the other hand, either.