Egr delete

[bhearts]

I have an aspire and it has egr in the intake manifold. I'm building a new upper manifold and I'll be deleting my egr. Egr is designed to put your inert exhaust gas back into the combustion. This takes up space that would be normally occupied by oxygen, and keeps the combustion temp down during high load low rpm driving. High exhaust temps make more nitrogen emissions. Here's what I was contemplating, water injection on the small scale. And here is my question, the connector that supplies power to the egr solenoid is a constant 12v while the ecm is regulating exhaust gas, right? Could I use this signal and a relay to drive a pump to pump water mist into my manifold? Or is it even worth worrying about the egr? It'd be wonderful getting those water injection cleaning effects during heavy load. Which would have the most use of the water. What's anyone else do?

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[sketchman]

I have deleted the EGR on other cars. My Escort and Neon. I just cut plates to block the ports off. I used parts of the stock stuff to do it. I read of a water injection install where the guy used straight vacuum IIRC to do it. No electronics needed. You just hook up a line to the vacuum side of the intake and use a restrictor to limit how much flow can get in. Lemme google it. It was some kind of big lincoln or something.

[sketchman]

Can't find the article I was looking for, but this one is decent.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html

[bravekozak]

Remove EGR, pipe tap both holes, install two pipe plugs, done.

[Spike]

Can't find the article I was looking for, but this one is decent.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me3.html

Not to hi-jack, but thanks for this! Never researched water injection.. now I know what I'm doing when it warms up. *giddy excitement*

[sketchman]

He did ask about water injection so....

I had steam injection before. Had a stock auto Neon. I built an HHO generator that got so hot it would boil the water so there was constant steam going into the engine. I never did any tests with it, but it felt less boggie on up-shifts. It was a 3 speed, so up-shifts bogged noticeably. No MPG gains, though.

[Spike]

Ooh, didn't even read entire first post. I shouldn't skim so much. :p

I literally went out and bought everything tonight. Wal-Mart had my air stones ($1.38 for 2, haha), Goodwill had a nice insulated mug for 99 cents. Already had my tubing. Sadly, the hardware stores close early, so first thing tomorrow I'll have my valve.

So giddy.

[bhearts]

the biggest issue with vacuum water/steam injection is that you get the most at idle, and the least at wot. which poses an issue in my mind. i did this with a coil of tubing that had engine coolant running through it, dipped in a jar full of water, so my water was already 180f, and the engine vacuum helped it boil that much easier. but the engine really needs the most water under heavy loads to fight nitrogen emmisions, and heavy loads promote close to no vacuum, and the least water... unless you put your sucking port before the throttle body, but theres really not alot of vacuum going on on the airbox side of the tb..

[redspire]

You might get a CEL on if you do this. Last time my CEL was on was because my EGR was plugged up and not reading right. Good luck though, let me know how it goes.

[sketchman]

Instead of suction you could use a smog pump to push air into the canister and inject pre-manifold. Use an electric one and a controller that runs off throttle angle. Or there was another DIY system that used a washer fluid pump to directly push the fluid instead of bubbling it. You could even use a stock windshield sprayer nozzle mounted inside the intake pipe to spray with.

Or maybe a water misting nozzle would be better.

[sketchman]

Oooooh. I've had an idea. An FMU or maybe even a 1:1 regulator of sorts that works in reverse. Instead of using pressure use vacuum to regulate fluid pressure at a nozzle in the intake tract. Then all you need is a pump running constantly in a tank when the engine is running. Just like the fuel pump. So it will respond directly to load. Less vacuum would equal higher fluid pressure and thus more flow.

Sorry for all the posting. You've got my brain buzzing.

[Spike]

^I like where this is going.

What I'm wondering - especially with the washer fluid sprayed directly - is how much actual WATER (not steam, but water before it explodes into molecules) can a B3 take?

the biggest issue with vacuum water/steam injection is that you get the most at idle, and the least at wot. which poses an issue in my mind.

That shouldn't be too much of a problem for me, atleast right now. Most of my driving is done in the 10-15 pounds (or is it inches?) of vacuum range, as I try to accelerate very slowly. Although I would think steam injection would make it possible to greatly drop my idle jets, which means taking downhills in neutral will be even better for MPG.

Man. Now I want an EFI 5-speed to test stuff on.

[bhearts]

I think the number is 20 percent water compared to your fuel. At wot would be about 100cc min. Now, if you had a higher compression head via a mil job, your combustion would be warmer and it'd be able to handle more steam/water. That brings this thread back to its beginning. The warmer the combustion the more water/cooling you'll need to rid yourself of the nitrogen emissions. I can't think of any single device that would offer more flow with les vacuum. Non computer controlled that is.

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[sketchman]

Do you understand how a mechanical fuel pressure regulator works? You could make it work in reverse to control by vacuum. In a boosted app air pressure is used as a "spring" in a mechanical FMU to hold back the fuel to build pressure. Different disc diameters provide different ratios by giving the air more area to press against the fuel. So to make it work in reverse you'd need a spring to create pressure when there's no vacuum to work against it, and then use vacuum to overcome spring pressure and lower the fluid pressure.

It's much simpler when I see it in my head than when I try to explain it. I'll see if I can draw what I'm talking about to make it make more sense.

[Spike]

^Please do. I can almost see it, but also have never used a fuel regulator (not aftermarket, anywho).

I put on my Ron Novak injection system today. I swear it gained power. I dunno if it'll help MPG, but (atleast in my head haha) I really feel a difference at part-throttle. I can hold 60 @ 14" of vacuum in 5th gear, where I used to hold 60 at about 6-8". I filled up on gas right after putting this system on. Will report back, or might make a new thread if my MPG goes up over a few percentage points.

Thanks again for linking to that article!!

-Joe