Headers for a B3 (found some, your thoughts?)

[Click_It]

Found these headers for the Festiva. Looks in good condition.

Two things I need to figure out.

1. Will they fit?
These are off an Aspire (Festiva WB in Australia) which I've since confirmed is the B3.

2. Any performance/economy gains?
I already have upgraded exhaust and muffler (~1.8 or 2 inch) and it sounds great for a B3. Being a carb it's always felt like it was struggling to breath but I'm pretty sure that's the fault of the factory carb and not so much the restrictive headers. I know a webber will improve a lot but I never got around to doing that.

$100 where I live is a decent price, but this guy is 1000 miles away so shipping might cost a few pennies.

UPDATE 1: His are from a 1.3L B3 Aspire - In Australia this was the first B3 to be fuel injected, unlike your Festy's which got it around 1990.
UPDATE 2: He's added more photos on that eBay link showing measurements.

[bhazard]

You'll get better performance from the DAE header and it'll prolly be cheaper than shipping that thing.

Edit nevermind I just saw you're actually in Australia.

[TominMO]

I would venture that any header would give performance gains over the stock WA/WB Festiva exhaust manifold. The WB (Aspire in US) mani is especially inefficient. The best would be 4-1, which is why the Matt D's DAE header is that way (I own two of them), but this 4-2-1 should help. Plus it looks cool! :-)

Probably no major difference in fuel economy, if any. It shouldn't hurt it tho, if you drive moderately. How a person drives has the most to do with economy. My B6 SOHC with extensive Dickmeyer headwork and his 4-1 header gets 48 MPG @ a steady 60 MPH!

IIRC 4-2-1 headers are generally used to aid midrange power, and 4-1 for peak power. Your two cents Charlie?

[Click_It]

Thanks guys.

I don't mind 4-2-1 (midrange power) for the sort of driving I do. I can get new 4-1 headers but they're spendy, over $400 locally. So I thought these for $100 (+$44 shipping) would be worth a try.

I'd say if I do this, then ditch the stock carb for a weber I should notice some bigger gains.

[rmoltis]

I would venture that any header would give performance gains over the stock WA/WB Festiva exhaust manifold. The WB (Aspire in US) mani is especially inefficient. The best would be 4-1, which is why the Matt D's DAE header is that way (I own two of them), but this 4-2-1 should help. Plus it looks cool! :-)

Probably no major difference in fuel economy, if any. It shouldn't hurt it tho, if you drive moderately. How a person drives has the most to do with economy. My B6 SOHC with extensive Dickmeyer headwork and his 4-1 header gets 48 MPG @ a steady 60 MPH!

IIRC 4-2-1 headers are generally used to aid midrange power, and 4-1 for peak power. Your two cents Charlie?

Pacemaker header used to make a header for the 1.3l.
And compared to Dae 4-1 it was very close.

The primary diameter was the same.
The primary lengths were similar 20-something inches to collector (having a hard time recalling exact #'s).
And the collector was 2".

They don't make them anymore and the site with dimensions no longer exists.
Good luck finding one.

[TominMO]

Thanks guys.

I don't mind 4-2-1 (midrange power) for the sort of driving I do. I can get new 4-1 headers but they're spendy, over $400 locally. So I thought these for $100 (+$44 shipping) would be worth a try.

I'd say if I do this, then ditch the stock carb for a weber I should notice some bigger gains.

Header, properly tuned Weber, advance the timing and use higher-octane gas. Probably be around 80 HP at the crank.

[Advancedynamix]

4-2-1 is typically a better street design. It gives a more broad TQ curve (depending on tune lengths and tubing diameters of coarse). 4-1 is usually easier and less expensive to produce.
On a B3, either would be an improvement as the factory extractor (the Australian term for an exhaust manifold) is not designed for performance (or fuel economy for that matter).

[fastivaca]

That's the same header I had on my B6 Festiva. It performed well with when teamed up with the other mods I'd done. They are a well made product IMO.

[errjam]

You'll get better performance from the DAE header and it'll prolly be cheaper than shipping that thing.

Edit nevermind I just saw you're actually in Australia.

what where when how on the DAE header

[bhazard]

Google Dickmeyer Automotive Engineering in Indiana

[Click_It]

Header, properly tuned Weber, advance the timing and use higher-octane gas. Probably be around 80 HP at the crank.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Going to stick with the 4-2-1 for now at least with the aim of doing the quoted work above, would be great to feel how the B3 drives without all the factory restrictions.

[TominMO]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Going to stick with the 4-2-1 for now at least with the aim of doing the quoted work above, would be great to feel how the B3 drives without all the factory restrictions.

Hope you have a Weber guru ner you. You will want the smallest main jets you can find, for the 1.3 motor. I think 90 is the lowest, maybe 100.

[rmoltis]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Going to stick with the 4-2-1 for now at least with the aim of doing the quoted work above, would be great to feel how the B3 drives without all the factory restrictions.

Tri-y headers can be nice if properly engineered.

I had a motavator tri-y shipped from Australia a few years back.
It was made for the b3. I also had an adjustable fuel pressure regulator at the time for fuel compensation.
I did not enjoy it one bit. For being a tri-y with a broad powerband.
It actually seemed to be very narrow.
Limiting a good portion of the upper rpm as well as lower ones too.
It was quite odd and dissapointing especially since this was my first experience with a header ever.

But let it be said that It is part of the learning curve.
After more research, poking, prodding. I found dickmeyer offering his headers here.
The first day I talked to him I spent a good hour or more discussing it with him on the phone.
Asking any questions I could that were relevant to a new header.
I wanted to understand the differences between mine and his.
This way I wouldn't experience the issues again.

He then reassured me that the header I got was just crap lmao (true).
And guranteed that I would love the s*** of his header.

Because let it be known after that 1st bad experience.
I became very distrustful of the gains a header would actually make
and whether or not the person making it was capable.

It was dickmeyers willingness to help customers understand the science of his work.
Along with answering any questions I could possible ever come up with
That sold me on giving him my business.

And the difference between a well made 4-1 compared to a poorly engineered tri-y.
Was when the powerband started picking up. The acceleration felt much more linear & torquey.
But best of all is when it hits its torque peak it is like a mini turbo kicking in :-D.
You can hear the change of exhaust sound when it happens as well as feel the increased acceleration/power.

I would do a price comparison between both of your options then decide from there.
Because I will tell you from experience that buying a header you don't like.
Then having to turn around a buy a 2nd better one later.
Along with all associated costs of installation (welding, pipe bending, flex bellow, flanges, gaskets, o2 sensor etc).
SUCKS!

I personally say go the DAE route if performance is your true goal.
Unless you know someone who is boss at engineering tri-y's.
I feel a custom engineered tuned tri-y could be just as good in its own ways.


I like to tell people to experiment.
Because the best way to learn what you like about cars.
Is gonna be trial and error.
It helps refine your understanding.

[blkfordsedan]

FWIW, I had several long conversations with Matt about header design and the B3 (he had yet to do any dyno testing on a B6 SOHC). His experience with Try-Y designs was always more favorable. The odd part was the results of his B3 dyno testing on Tri-Y. His experiments and testing showed the same "peculiar" results that you experienced. He could not really explain why, and was just as surprised. In any event, he concluded that the 4-1 design produced the best results on a B3, for whatever reason.

[Advancedynamix]

Great info. It would be cool to see the graphs. Sometimes, space is an issue as well. 4-2-1 headers get quite lengthy, especially on a long stroke engine such as the B3.
One thing to note as well. 4-1 headers will provide a more noticeable TQ peak than 4-2-1 design. This often feels like more HP by the seat of the pants. It also would net higher output numbers on a non load bearing inertia dyno, such as a DynoJet.

This is only advice to help the O.P. decide as he is not in a good place to order a DAE header (shipping would be very high to AUS) and there are several manufacturers closer to him that make different styles of headers for the b3/b6. I think the DAE header is probably a great value from what I've seen, so I'm not trying to discredit that product, or it's manufacturer.