Question on syncro repairs

[harpon]

I'm getting some hard shifting going with this very hot weather on- and ready to check level and change the gear oil. Never been done to my knowledge and never any problems before.

I see syncro rebuild kits at vendors with brass or copper? syncro rings I've heard mentioned in other threads searched here, and a couple of other bearings and seals.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Aspire-Festiva-FTI5-5-Speed-FTI4-4-Speed-Transmission-Rebuild-Kit-1994-1997/370996607876?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35389%26meid%3D30f9e9719d8040d29a605a9079b3a328%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191599881982

My question is, f it comes down to a replacement of the syncros- which I can definitely NOT do myself,
how much of a repair is it? Can a good qualified shop do this or should I head right for a transmission shop?

Also- how cost effective would t be to replace the clutch kit pressure plate assembly then? Does a tear down involve the clutch assembly or is that a completely unrelated deal?

What other bearings or assembles might be involved if it gets into a syncro repar?

Car is a clean Aspire 5 speed manual transmission, w/ 120,000 miles

any info or advice appreciated. Thanks!

[blake4591]

I would try to find a shop that has some experience with manual trans rebuilds. These transmissions are pretty simple but I would not want to pay someone to take it apart if they have never seen one before. I would go ahead and put a new clutch in since the trans has to come out for the rebuild. Basically all of the labor to replace the clutch would be done and it would be exposed.

[Advancedynamix]

Harpon, you may be better off swapping to a Festiva 5 speed transmission. It'll be less expensive and the Festiva tranny is known to last longer than the Aspire one. It also has a taller final drive ratio, which means better gas mileage for you. Some people have reported a 5mpg or more increase.

[ryanprins13]

Question on syncro repairs

Transmission swap is usually cheaper and easier than fixing but check the fluid level and change it regardless first. Use the proper atf or syncromesh. If that doesn't fix it you can drain it into a clean container and use it for the first 500km or whatever on the new to you or rebuilt transmission that you get so its not wasted.
And defiantly change the clutch while its out if you take the transmission out. The clutch kits are very cheap compared to yours or someone elses time removing and replacing the trans


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[harpon]

I managed to get the speedo cable and bolt off, just as the gear oil was being delivered- a gallon-, so I took a reading on the level of the gear oil, thinking if it was low I might be able to top it off and see f there was any improvement-

AND THERE WAS NO READNG AT ALL- I couldn't see any oil on ether the speedo worm gear or the shaft-

So I beared down and got the drain plug off underneath- a 19mm- to see what came out-

there was only a little more than 1/4 of a liter- about a cup and a half that came out!

Just goes to show I guess- I haven't worried over it ever because I never saw any traces of any leaks- I started to wonder if someone had drained some of it!
But I guess the car is 20 years old now- so maybe NOT THAT UNLIKELY to be low- VERY low.


So I filled it up again- 2.5 liters- 2.6 quarts- I'm now not sure what the results wll be- I drove around the block- there seemed to be some trouble shifting still- it's mostly second gear, and first- both on the left side, although the fiirst thing I noticed a few weeks back was that 5th was hard on the highway.

I'm hoping that the lubricaton may clear it up- but that's probably a small chance- there may be a telltale brass color to the small bit of oil that was in there-

still evaluating. Wish I ad paid attention to this a few years back- the small job is killing me now. :woc:

This was a great deal- when I ordered it a few days ago- there was a special that waived the shipping- I got a gallon of this w/tax and delivered for just over $14:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peak-80W-90-Gear-Oil-Gallon-P9G083-/161475751388?hash=item2598b46ddc:g:t94AAOSwDuJW15Vm&item=161475751388&vxp=mtr

[ryanprins13]

I have siezed my transmission 3 times. Mine leaked fluid bad and ihad to add it every month-2wks. Forgot 3 times... Ground and squealed right to a halt the first 2 times and was just starting to jerk and shudder the last time when i pulled over. Driven it 5 years and over 100,000km since the first time until a month ago when i couldnt shift into 5th gear. No other ill effects other than loosing 5mpg. Replaced the transmission and my fuel milage seems to have regained that 5mpg but its too early to tell. I used 10w30 for the first 3 years after siezing it and atf for the last 2. The problems your having shifting could be that oil being way too thick and the syncros can't spin down fast enough.


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[sketchman]

Try some Mobil 1 0w-40 Euro Spec motor oil in it. Doesn't get any thinner, I don't think, and might give you some more time with those possibly ruined syncros.

[harpon]

I think that 75-85 is the intended weight- there's some listed on ebay specifically for KIA. The Haines manual says Mercon Auto tranny, which makes NO sense to me and seems to be one of those little corporate level torpoedos, like the VIN number being put DOWN inside the left dash defroster vent, and compromising further the defroster on a car with a very cool running motor. The stuff that came out was definitely NOT auto tranny fluid.

[harpon]

I think that 75-85 is the intended weight- there's some listed on ebay specifically for KIA http://www.ebay.com/itm/KIA-MANUAL-T...844898&vxp=mtr.

The ever sketchy Haines manual says Mercon Auto tranny fluid, which makes NO sense to me and seems to be one of those little corporate level torpoedos, like the VIN number being put DOWN inside the left dash defroster vent, and compromising further the defroster on a car with a very cool running motor. The stuff that came out was definitely NOT auto tranny fluid.

took a little drive- the problem is definitely much less but some evidence of one still there- maybe it'll settle in more.

What is it with you kids and THIN oil? I want something that's gonna coat and lubricate and not braek down so fast- I've always run 40 or higher in the motor with great results.
I think you're being sold a bill of goods by the RACING world, which ruined practical cycling with Big Oil corporate blessings too.
You know- "the OIL doesn't get in the way of MAX REV for 500 miles", then they throw it out and install a new motor for next week. Not that great for practical everyday driving IMHO.

If the syncos are ruined it's because of a lack of fluid- not because of the fluid that was probably original- I'm the second owner and bought the car at 35,000. Seems like if t's slow leaking, thin stuff will only leak faster.

[Team Lightning]

I use Pennzoil Synchromesh in my cars. They shift much easier than with the recommended ATF.

[william]

I've had 2 festivas with over 300k one with 75-90 the other with atf and I can't says there where much difference the gear lube was a bit harder to shift below freezing.
I put the gear lube in my first festiva because I was the 2nd owner and when I changed cv shafts that's what came out.

[TominMO]

I'm using racing motorcycle 20W50, just because Charlie does. Never had an issue. Also, as a bonus, it's too thick to leak out the driveshaft seals!

I think the 75W80 is much too thick. Sounds like rear diff oil.

If you do pull your tranny for any reason, a reflex move should be to also change the rear main seal on the motor. Cheap and easy.

[Advancedynamix]

Yeah, I like that Valvoline 20/50. I used to get a lot of brass shavings with my trans fluid changes on Tweak, after I switched to that it stayed clean and I even reused it after it was in the car a whole season! I was dumping the ATF between race days, and getting shavings. Gear oil shifted hard when I was trying to shift fast. The 20/50 is a good balance. Motorcycle oil is designed to promote some friction because motorcycles have wet clutches. The syncros are sort of little wet clutches, so they need a little friction to work properly. That was my thoery and it seems to work.

[harpon]

If it's leaking any and I have to top it off, I may put some thinner stuff in- if it still has any troubles.

Drove t another 6 miles in town today mostly- it's shifting good in all gears but still wants to hang up on 2nd, tho not as bad- just kicking myself for never worrying about it, because if it is damaged now it's obviously from a lack of fluid. It might go a long time like that or it may get worse again- my gut says it may not be a big problem for awhile, but puts a reliability stigma on the car. I wish they'd just put a dipstick in it- checking under the speedo will be a pain.

I bought my first Festy with 175K on it and drove it to 275K before I had to sell it, and never once even thought about the gear oil.

[harpon]

B'gosh and B'gorrah!

The more I drive the better it's gotten. The three mile return trip today was like no problem ever, so I'm feeling better about it again and maybe not too much damage has been done.

I've also put some cardboard under it to better see- I park on some stones otherwise- it looks like I have possibly a drip- but not much of a leak.

Are there bolts I can tighten to maybe improve that? even the way t looks- and a bit early to tell- it may be a check every few months and if it's a half liter of year fluid add, that's netter than ordering an expensive used tranny.

Feeling better about this all the time- but a word to the wise- keep that level checked once or twice a year at least I guess, or at the first sign of any stuff shifting into gear.

Also- I didn't see this was a "custom" oriented thread when I first posted- probably would have been better in Repairs forum. Thanks for the info and advice anyway!