I need some rust advice

[poisonousbeef]

Sorry to threadjack, but if pyro doesn't look at the shell I might be interested as I have pretty much the exact same rust on my 91 in Western PA.

[SimonTuffGuy]

Haha - I'll keep that in mind. The only problem is that the body wouldn't have a title...

[m715]

That rust is soooo common. They had a material that held water like a sponge in between the panels in front of the rear wheels. You gotta get all the rust cut out of there if you plan on a long term fix. This is a critical area strength wise, and if you check under the car forward of the swing arm mounts there is a seam that I can just about bet has some structure problems too.
You can run them for a surprising amount of time like this, and Shtinky, and the Red Car are perfect examples of that! Both have extensive problems there, but I am running them until the doors won't close anymore.
SEM products makes a rust converter called Rust Mort avail in pints,quarts etc to treat rust and change it to a phosphate finish. We sell lots of it to body shops.
That said, remember that this area is all resistance welded together for a reason.... it supports the whole rocker panel/rear suspension attaching points and IS the strength for the whole side/rear of the unitized body in this part of the car. I always tried to mig the sheet metal back for this kind of a problem if the shell of the car is worth it, or just resign myself to the fact that it's too far gone, and relegate the car to winter use patching a hole as it becomes needed. From what your pics show, you may want to consider that you have a limited lifespan on that shell, and look over the next couple of years for a better shell to whip into shape and transfer all good parts somewhere down the line. I have gone through 8 cars so far to make the 4 I drive, and one of those has termites that will kill it in a few.
If you decide to salvage the shell, consider finding a patch cut from another quarter panel, and weld it in place. The key is to clean all the accumulated trash out of the rocker panel, and use a honey flow grade rust proofing to seal ALL joints from exposure to air. If you don't, your rust will be back in about a year no matter what.
Michael[/img]

[ignitablepyro]

Hmmm.. that would be a hard decision, I don't really know how I would manage swapping everything over without screwing something up, and I've done a good bit of bodywork to the rest of mine already. Although It's gonna be a mess cleaning up some it, and if it comes back I'm not gonna be happy, I want to keep the car for a while, and I don't like the idea of rust sneaking up on me. I could wait for it to come back, then swap all my stuff over. I guess it would depend on how much nicer it is than what I'm working with now.

[m715]

It IS tough to decide. We are very lucky that these cars are so simple that if you do go to another shell later, it isn't as big of a job as it sounds. I have made LXs out of Ls a few times now, and swapped best till that I may forget one or two things, but it has become as easy as it's going to get I guess. Try to get that pinchweld as strong as you can under the rocker, and like I said before, look over that seam under the car too. Riveting will fill in the space, but it won't add any strength, so if you don't have resources to weld in reinforcements, at least glue them in using panel adhesives used to reattach body panels on automobiles. 3M and Sem make these 2 part products, and they are what most bodymen use to replace quarters, door skins etc anymore because it is so fast and meets minimum strenth requirements. This tends to last about 5 years and then most times that is the life cycle for the product in my experience.
Contact me direct if I can help in ANY way. I will be more than happy to.

Michael

[Dave G]

Your pics look about like my blue car was. Before putting on the patches, I used some kind of spray stuff that is supposed to stop rust from spreading, then covered that with spray undercoating stuff. I pop rivited on galvanized steel patches while the undercoating stuff was still wet, on the theory that would seal things better (?). Then a little bondo & good quality automotive paint from NAPA. We're into the second Ohio winter now, and it's holding up fine, although I know I need to do some touching up here and there in the spring.

Hey, it's a $300 car with 140000 miles on it; "This is good enough!" was my mantra :-)

[m715]

I think we all are in the same boat with cars that are only worth much money to us, and not insurance cos or the public in general. I have one car that is much worse than that, as I said , and am just waiting for the day that I have to give up on it for good, strip it for the goodies, and move to the next shell. I don't think that anything that I suggested really involves much money, as I am lets say, um well CHEAP when it comes to repairs like this. Too cheap to pay others to do it. I still say that bonding the panels with that much of a void to fill in in a critical area like that is what "I" would do. One note here...... I do work in a PBE(paint and body equipment) jobber establishment, so I do have the luxury of strolling up front, getting what I need for material, mix up some paint, then go to the back to pursue my "hobbies". That been said, the guys we sell to every day are looking for the fastest way to make money for the day, and move to the next job, and that is how they are doing it.... lop off the old panel, grind off the edge to make it stick, and put the adhesive to it. A panel from a wrecked salvage car speeds up this process, and if you use a honey type undercoating in a rattle can with the optional long tips of about 30" to get into those hard to get spots from inside the rocker especially with a compound that stays gooey and that condensation can't get behind like a coating that gets hard can, and you can truly get as close as you can to eliminating the moisture componant corrosion needs to happen. That is why it's used now on the newer model cars instead of the older asphalt/rubberized type product. Big thing here is getting those cracks and corners cleaned out well enough that had all that time to get salt and road crud caked up in there. Preparation is the key in all this, and no product can cover this up. Also remember that the drains that are located along that pinchweld have to be kept open, otherwise you will have water standing in the rocker panels. Seal all joints where sheet metal meet together to keep the tires from providing new crud from the road is a big help too. These are all things that get preached by the companies making the product for the pros. They want to sell there wares, sure. They get the sale by making the job cheaper, faster, and better than any other way of doing it. Honestly just trying to help.

Michael